From hutch at recursive.ca  Fri Apr  1 22:03:07 2005
From: hutch at recursive.ca (Bob Hutchison)
Date: Fri, 1 Apr 2005 17:03:07 -0500
Subject: [tbnl-devel] A Small Problem with TBNL Stand-alone
Message-ID: <210dfa52dfcdc0d13837b150288b3b6b@recursive.ca>

Hi,

I'm back from vacation and am now integrating 0.5.2 into my main code 
base. This so I can make use of the Araneida and standalone TBNL.

It didn't work.

I got it to work by changing how *use-modlisp-headers* is used. I've 
attached a patch. I think you must have changed how I was using it 
while cleaning up the patch I sent originally.

Cheers,
Bob

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----
Bob Hutchison          -- blogs at <http://www.recursive.ca/hutch/>
Recursive Design Inc.  -- <http://www.recursive.ca/>

From hutch at recursive.ca  Fri Apr  1 22:14:35 2005
From: hutch at recursive.ca (Bob Hutchison)
Date: Fri, 1 Apr 2005 17:14:35 -0500
Subject: [tbnl-devel] That Memory Consumption Problem Unique to OS/X (Again)
Message-ID: <b13f2afa88387e81cde881b6ca9e6ff9@recursive.ca>

Hi,

I've been looking into that unbound memory consumption situation when 
directly connecting to TBNL (that doesn't happen when going through 
mod_lisp or Araneida and only seems to happen on OS/X).

I put some debugging statements into KMRCL and have (finally) noticed 
something that was blindingly obvious before.

There is a KMRCL function lw-worker in listener.lisp that is called for 
every request made to TBNL directly. It is called only once (or, at 
least, a very few times) if TBNL is invoked indirectly (i.e. via 
mod_lisp or Araneida). The call to this function is through a lambda 
that is defined in make-socket-server and passed to 
comm:start-up-server.

I am assuming at this point that this has something to do with the 
problem.

Now, I don't really understand what is going on here. I will continue 
to look into this, but if anyone happens to already know what is going 
on here I'd love to hear about it.

Cheers,
Bob



From edi at agharta.de  Fri Apr  1 22:47:51 2005
From: edi at agharta.de (Edi Weitz)
Date: Sat, 02 Apr 2005 00:47:51 +0200
Subject: [tbnl-devel] A Small Problem with TBNL Stand-alone
In-Reply-To: <210dfa52dfcdc0d13837b150288b3b6b@recursive.ca> (Bob
	Hutchison's message of "Fri, 1 Apr 2005 17:03:07 -0500")
References: <210dfa52dfcdc0d13837b150288b3b6b@recursive.ca>
Message-ID: <ur7hu9krs.fsf@agharta.de>

Hi Bob!

On Fri, 1 Apr 2005 17:03:07 -0500, Bob Hutchison <hutch at recursive.ca> wrote:

> I'm back from vacation and am now integrating 0.5.2 into my main
> code base. This so I can make use of the Araneida and standalone
> TBNL.
>
> It didn't work.
>
> I got it to work by changing how *use-modlisp-headers* is used. I've
> attached a patch. I think you must have changed how I was using it
> while cleaning up the patch I sent originally.

Yes, I changed some things but I tested with all three setups
afterwards.  What exactly doesn't work for you?

Cheers,
Edi.


From hutch at recursive.ca  Fri Apr  1 22:50:26 2005
From: hutch at recursive.ca (Bob Hutchison)
Date: Fri, 1 Apr 2005 17:50:26 -0500
Subject: [tbnl-devel] A Small Problem with TBNL Stand-alone
In-Reply-To: <ur7hu9krs.fsf@agharta.de>
References: <210dfa52dfcdc0d13837b150288b3b6b@recursive.ca>
	<ur7hu9krs.fsf@agharta.de>
Message-ID: <caf30a68ee0473a497c0471111c37bbb@recursive.ca>


On Apr 1, 2005, at 5:47 PM, Edi Weitz wrote:

> Hi Bob!
>
> On Fri, 1 Apr 2005 17:03:07 -0500, Bob Hutchison <hutch at recursive.ca> 
> wrote:
>
>> I'm back from vacation and am now integrating 0.5.2 into my main
>> code base. This so I can make use of the Araneida and standalone
>> TBNL.
>>
>> It didn't work.
>>
>> I got it to work by changing how *use-modlisp-headers* is used. I've
>> attached a patch. I think you must have changed how I was using it
>> while cleaning up the patch I sent originally.
>
> Yes, I changed some things but I tested with all three setups
> afterwards.  What exactly doesn't work for you?

The TBNL stand-alone. When it was writing the headers it had the wrong 
value for *use-modlisp-headers* -- value of t rather than nil. 
Consequently it was returning mod_lisp stuff to the browser and the 
browser, naturally enough, didn't like it.

>
> Cheers,
> Edi.
>
>
----
Bob Hutchison          -- blogs at <http://www.recursive.ca/hutch/>
Recursive Design Inc.  -- <http://www.recursive.ca/>



From edi at agharta.de  Fri Apr  1 22:58:51 2005
From: edi at agharta.de (Edi Weitz)
Date: Sat, 02 Apr 2005 00:58:51 +0200
Subject: [tbnl-devel] A Small Problem with TBNL Stand-alone
In-Reply-To: <caf30a68ee0473a497c0471111c37bbb@recursive.ca> (Bob
	Hutchison's message of "Fri, 1 Apr 2005 17:50:26 -0500")
References: <210dfa52dfcdc0d13837b150288b3b6b@recursive.ca>
	<ur7hu9krs.fsf@agharta.de>
	<caf30a68ee0473a497c0471111c37bbb@recursive.ca>
Message-ID: <umzsi9k9g.fsf@agharta.de>

On Fri, 1 Apr 2005 17:50:26 -0500, Bob Hutchison <hutch at recursive.ca> wrote:

> The TBNL stand-alone. When it was writing the headers it had the
> wrong value for *use-modlisp-headers* -- value of t rather than
> nil. Consequently it was returning mod_lisp stuff to the browser and
> the browser, naturally enough, didn't like it.

Did you set it to NIL manually before using it?

  <http://weitz.de/tbnl/#tbnl-start>

Cheers,
Edi.


From hutch at recursive.ca  Fri Apr  1 23:11:51 2005
From: hutch at recursive.ca (Bob Hutchison)
Date: Fri, 1 Apr 2005 18:11:51 -0500
Subject: [tbnl-devel] Re: That Memory Consumption Problem Unique to OS/X
	(Again)
In-Reply-To: <b13f2afa88387e81cde881b6ca9e6ff9@recursive.ca>
References: <b13f2afa88387e81cde881b6ca9e6ff9@recursive.ca>
Message-ID: <1d9e0dcfe241cf9145fc02e999189286@recursive.ca>


On Apr 1, 2005, at 5:14 PM, Bob Hutchison wrote:

> Hi,
>
> I've been looking into that unbound memory consumption situation when 
> directly connecting to TBNL (that doesn't happen when going through 
> mod_lisp or Araneida and only seems to happen on OS/X).
>
> I put some debugging statements into KMRCL and have (finally) noticed 
> something that was blindingly obvious before.
>
> There is a KMRCL function lw-worker in listener.lisp that is called 
> for every request made to TBNL directly. It is called only once (or, 
> at least, a very few times) if TBNL is invoked indirectly (i.e. via 
> mod_lisp or Araneida). The call to this function is through a lambda 
> that is defined in make-socket-server and passed to 
> comm:start-up-server.

A bit more specific information. In the worker initializer there is a 
lambda being assigned to the thread-fun slot. In the case of 
mod_lisp->TBNL this function very rarely returns (but it does). In the 
case of browser->TBNL this function always returns.

So it turns out that the tbnl::listen-for-request function is 
returning. Don't know why yet.

How could this be chewing up memory? Where is the bug, surely returning 
from the listener-function should cause things to be cleaned up?


>
> I am assuming at this point that this has something to do with the 
> problem.
>
> Now, I don't really understand what is going on here. I will continue 
> to look into this, but if anyone happens to already know what is going 
> on here I'd love to hear about it.
>
> Cheers,
> Bob
>
>
----
Bob Hutchison          -- blogs at <http://www.recursive.ca/hutch/>
Recursive Design Inc.  -- <http://www.recursive.ca/>



From hutch at recursive.ca  Fri Apr  1 23:15:48 2005
From: hutch at recursive.ca (Bob Hutchison)
Date: Fri, 1 Apr 2005 18:15:48 -0500
Subject: [tbnl-devel] A Small Problem with TBNL Stand-alone
In-Reply-To: <umzsi9k9g.fsf@agharta.de>
References: <210dfa52dfcdc0d13837b150288b3b6b@recursive.ca>
	<ur7hu9krs.fsf@agharta.de>
	<caf30a68ee0473a497c0471111c37bbb@recursive.ca>
	<umzsi9k9g.fsf@agharta.de>
Message-ID: <1014d452901048b500181a0d942092e4@recursive.ca>


On Apr 1, 2005, at 5:58 PM, Edi Weitz wrote:

> On Fri, 1 Apr 2005 17:50:26 -0500, Bob Hutchison <hutch at recursive.ca> 
> wrote:
>
>> The TBNL stand-alone. When it was writing the headers it had the
>> wrong value for *use-modlisp-headers* -- value of t rather than
>> nil. Consequently it was returning mod_lisp stuff to the browser and
>> the browser, naturally enough, didn't like it.
>
> Did you set it to NIL manually before using it?
>
>   <http://weitz.de/tbnl/#tbnl-start>

Ah, now I see. I wanted to be able to run any of the combinations at 
the same time. Setting the value of *use-modlisp-headers* will prevent 
that -- that will force a choice between direct and indirect. The patch 
I sent uses the test in read-http-request to set the value of 
*use-modlisp-headers*.

>
> Cheers,
> Edi.
>
>
----
Bob Hutchison          -- blogs at <http://www.recursive.ca/hutch/>
Recursive Design Inc.  -- <http://www.recursive.ca/>



From randomtalk at gmail.com  Sat Apr  2 02:10:47 2005
From: randomtalk at gmail.com (Jason Wang)
Date: Fri, 1 Apr 2005 21:10:47 -0500
Subject: [tbnl-devel] basic package question
In-Reply-To: <ull89wito.fsf@agharta.de>
References: <939cf2005032620032a2ac077@mail.gmail.com>
	<ull89wito.fsf@agharta.de>
Message-ID: <939cf2005040118104912d558@mail.gmail.com>

mmm.. i have looked through the book, and also through the code in the
tbnl directory, i have created a new folder called test2, added
package.lisp into that folder, containing the following code:
(in-package #:cl-user)

(defpackage #:test2
  (:use #:cl #:cl-who #:tbnl)
  (:export #:start-araneida-listener
           #:stop-araneida-listener))

and it still wouldn't work.. can someone give me a bit more pointer
what to do next? thanks alot :D
-- 
www.programer.name - my own personal blog : )


From edi at agharta.de  Sat Apr  2 09:01:25 2005
From: edi at agharta.de (Edi Weitz)
Date: Sat, 02 Apr 2005 11:01:25 +0200
Subject: [tbnl-devel] basic package question
In-Reply-To: <939cf2005040118104912d558@mail.gmail.com> (Jason Wang's
	message of "Fri, 1 Apr 2005 21:10:47 -0500")
References: <939cf2005032620032a2ac077@mail.gmail.com>
	<ull89wito.fsf@agharta.de> <939cf2005040118104912d558@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <u8y418sd6.fsf@agharta.de>

On Fri, 1 Apr 2005 21:10:47 -0500, Jason Wang <randomtalk at gmail.com> wrote:

> mmm.. i have looked through the book, and also through the code in
> the tbnl directory, i have created a new folder called test2, added
> package.lisp into that folder, containing the following code:
> (in-package #:cl-user)
>
> (defpackage #:test2
>   (:use #:cl #:cl-who #:tbnl)
>   (:export #:start-araneida-listener
>            #:stop-araneida-listener))
>
> and it still wouldn't work.. can someone give me a bit more pointer
> what to do next?

What are you trying to do exactly and what doesn't work?


From edi at agharta.de  Sat Apr  2 13:44:33 2005
From: edi at agharta.de (Edi Weitz)
Date: Sat, 02 Apr 2005 15:44:33 +0200
Subject: [tbnl-devel] A Small Problem with TBNL Stand-alone
In-Reply-To: <1014d452901048b500181a0d942092e4@recursive.ca> (Bob
	Hutchison's message of "Fri, 1 Apr 2005 18:15:48 -0500")
References: <210dfa52dfcdc0d13837b150288b3b6b@recursive.ca>
	<ur7hu9krs.fsf@agharta.de>
	<caf30a68ee0473a497c0471111c37bbb@recursive.ca>
	<umzsi9k9g.fsf@agharta.de>
	<1014d452901048b500181a0d942092e4@recursive.ca>
Message-ID: <u7jjli98e.fsf@agharta.de>

On Fri, 1 Apr 2005 18:15:48 -0500, Bob Hutchison <hutch at recursive.ca> wrote:

> Ah, now I see. I wanted to be able to run any of the combinations at
> the same time. Setting the value of *use-modlisp-headers* will
> prevent that -- that will force a choice between direct and
> indirect. The patch I sent uses the test in read-http-request to set
> the value of *use-modlisp-headers*.

Yes, I remember that now - makes sense.  Don't know why I changed
that.  I'll prepare a new release with updated docs this weekend.

Cheers,
Edi.


From edi at agharta.de  Sat Apr  2 15:33:08 2005
From: edi at agharta.de (Edi Weitz)
Date: Sat, 02 Apr 2005 17:33:08 +0200
Subject: [tbnl-devel] basic package question
In-Reply-To: <939cf2005040207181884c095@mail.gmail.com> (Jason Wang's
	message of "Sat, 2 Apr 2005 10:18:56 -0500")
References: <939cf2005032620032a2ac077@mail.gmail.com>
	<ull89wito.fsf@agharta.de> <939cf2005040118104912d558@mail.gmail.com>
	<u8y418sd6.fsf@agharta.de> <939cf2005040207181884c095@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <u1x9tgpmz.fsf@agharta.de>

On Sat, 2 Apr 2005 10:18:56 -0500, Jason Wang <randomtalk at gmail.com> wrote:

> since i can use (asdf:oos 'asdf:load-op :tbnl-test) to start up
> tbnl-test package, i thought i'd use the same statment: (asdf:oos
> 'asdf:load-op :test2) to fire up teh test2 package, apparently it
> doesn't work.. can you tell me what i'm doing wrong?

ASDF is not used to "start up" or "fire up" packages but to load
libraries.  You might want to look at the ASDF documentation or at my
ASDF-INSTALL tutorial.

If you just want to serve pages other than the ones from the test
website with TBNL you don't necessarily need a new package and you
don't need ASDF either.  Instead, you should read the documentation
about handlers and dispatchers:

  <http://weitz.de/tbnl/#handlers>

You can change these values while TBNL is already running.

Cheers,
Edi.


From randomtalk at gmail.com  Sat Apr  2 18:19:28 2005
From: randomtalk at gmail.com (Jason Wang)
Date: Sat, 2 Apr 2005 13:19:28 -0500
Subject: [tbnl-devel] basic package question
In-Reply-To: <u1x9tgpmz.fsf@agharta.de>
References: <939cf2005032620032a2ac077@mail.gmail.com>
	<ull89wito.fsf@agharta.de> <939cf2005040118104912d558@mail.gmail.com>
	<u8y418sd6.fsf@agharta.de> <939cf2005040207181884c095@mail.gmail.com>
	<u1x9tgpmz.fsf@agharta.de>
Message-ID: <939cf20050402101923c17c06@mail.gmail.com>

ok. so i type in  (asdf:oos 'asdf:load-op :tbnl) then start-tbnl, i
always get the default page no matter what, where do i replace the
default pages?
-- 
www.programer.name - my own personal blog : )


From edi at agharta.de  Sat Apr  2 23:41:50 2005
From: edi at agharta.de (Edi Weitz)
Date: Sun, 03 Apr 2005 01:41:50 +0200
Subject: [tbnl-devel] basic package question
In-Reply-To: <939cf20050402101923c17c06@mail.gmail.com> (Jason Wang's
	message of "Sat, 2 Apr 2005 13:19:28 -0500")
References: <939cf2005032620032a2ac077@mail.gmail.com>
	<ull89wito.fsf@agharta.de> <939cf2005040118104912d558@mail.gmail.com>
	<u8y418sd6.fsf@agharta.de> <939cf2005040207181884c095@mail.gmail.com>
	<u1x9tgpmz.fsf@agharta.de> <939cf20050402101923c17c06@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <uzmwgagqp.fsf@agharta.de>

On Sat, 2 Apr 2005 13:19:28 -0500, Jason Wang <randomtalk at gmail.com> wrote:

> ok. so i type in (asdf:oos 'asdf:load-op :tbnl) then start-tbnl, i
> always get the default page no matter what, where do i replace the
> default pages?

Have you ever considered reading the documentation?


From edi at agharta.de  Sun Apr  3 10:30:39 2005
From: edi at agharta.de (Edi Weitz)
Date: Sun, 03 Apr 2005 12:30:39 +0200
Subject: [tbnl-devel] New version 0.5.3
Message-ID: <uy8c0ywxc.fsf@agharta.de>

ChangeLog:

  Version 0.5.3
  2005-04-03
  Re-introduced automatic front-end selection (originally by Bob Hutchinson)

Download:

  <http://weitz.de/files/tbnl.tar.gz>

Have fun,
Edi.


From edi at agharta.de  Sun Apr  3 18:53:52 2005
From: edi at agharta.de (Edi Weitz)
Date: Sun, 03 Apr 2005 20:53:52 +0200
Subject: [tbnl-devel] New version 0.5.4  (Was: New version 0.5.3)
In-Reply-To: <d83b37927d4246db1a04401fcb0bb260@recursive.ca> (Bob
	Hutchison's message of "Sun, 3 Apr 2005 11:17:55 -0400")
References: <uy8c0ywxc.fsf@agharta.de>
	<d83b37927d4246db1a04401fcb0bb260@recursive.ca>
Message-ID: <uis33zo73.fsf_-_@agharta.de>

On Sun, 3 Apr 2005 11:17:55 -0400, Bob Hutchison <hutch at recursive.ca> wrote:

> Thanks for the new release. There's just one small problem that I
> can see. In the function listen-for-request in modlisp.lisp there is
> a loop where you set *use-mod-lisp-headers* -- this is a
> misspelling, it should be *use-modlisp-headers* (and until I
> corrected this I was getting some bad behaviour).

Argh!  That happens if you think you can type faster than
slime-complete-symbol... :(

I've uploaded a corrected version (0.5.4).

Thanks and sorry for the noise,
Edi.


From edi at agharta.de  Tue Apr  5 21:13:33 2005
From: edi at agharta.de (Edi Weitz)
Date: Tue, 05 Apr 2005 23:13:33 +0200
Subject: [tbnl-devel] Re: tbnl / sbcl 0.8.21
In-Reply-To: <1112728042.10494.21.camel@foo.net> (Keith Irwin's message of
	"Tue, 05 Apr 2005 12:07:22 -0700")
References: <1112728042.10494.21.camel@foo.net>
Message-ID: <uacodork2.fsf@agharta.de>

[Please use the mailing list.  Thanks.]

Hi!

On Tue, 05 Apr 2005 12:07:22 -0700, Keith Irwin <keith at keithirwin.com> wrote:

> Sir--

Woops...

> I encountered the following after attempting to install TBNL via
> asdf-install on SBCL 0.8.21.
>
> SBCL: linux, sb-thread, sb-unicode
>
> My guess is that it has something to do with SBCL defaulting streams
> to unicode rather than some previous way of doing things, but I
> don't really know much about that stuff.
>
> Thought you might like to know.
>
> Keith
> keith at keithirwin.com
>
>
> ; compiling (DEFUN SEND-FILE ...)
> ; compiling (DEFPARAMETER *HEADLINE* ...)
> ; compiling (DEFUN MENU ...)
> ; compiling (SETQ *DISPATCH-TABLE* ...)
>
> ; /home/keith/.sbcl/site/tbnl-0.5.4/test/test.fasl written
> ; compilation finished in 0:00:01
> STYLE-WARNING: redefining TBNL-LINK in DEFUN
> STYLE-WARNING: redefining MENU-LINK in DEFUN
> STYLE-WARNING: redefining AUTHORIZATION-PAGE in DEFUN
>
> debugger invoked on a SB-INT:STREAM-DECODING-ERROR in thread 10326:
>   decoding error on stream
>   #<SB-SYS:FD-STREAM for "file
> \"/home/keith/.sbcl/site/tbnl-0.5.4/test/fz.jpg\"" {936DAA1}>
>   (:EXTERNAL-FORMAT :UTF-8):
>     the octet sequence (255 216 255 224) cannot be decoded.
>
> Type HELP for debugger help, or (SB-EXT:QUIT) to exit from SBCL.
>
> restarts (invokable by number or by possibly-abbreviated name):
>   0: [ATTEMPT-RESYNC   ] Attempt to resync the stream at a character
> boundary
>                          and continue.
>   1: [FORCE-END-OF-FILE] Force an end of file.
>   2: [RETRY            ] Retry performing #<ASDF:LOAD-OP NIL {A0DBFD9}>
> on
>                          #<ASDF:CL-SOURCE-FILE "test" {9AB5861}>.
>   3: [ACCEPT           ] Continue, treating #<ASDF:LOAD-OP NIL
> {A0DBFD9}> on
>                          #<ASDF:CL-SOURCE-FILE "test" {9AB5861}> as
> having been
>                          successful.
>   4: [RETRY            ] Retry installation
>   5: [ABORT            ] Exit debugger, returning to top level.
>
> (SB-INT:STREAM-DECODING-ERROR
>  #<SB-SYS:FD-STREAM for "file
> \"/home/keith/.sbcl/site/tbnl-0.5.4/test/fz.jpg\"" {936DAA1}>
>  (255 216 255 224))
> 0]

One solution might be to check if SBCL has some kind of default
external format which can be used to overwrite the UTF-8 format.  I
don't use SBCL myself but I seem to remember that this might depend on
the value of some environment variable when the image is started.
Maybe someone else here knows the details.

Another option would be to treat SBCL like LW and AllegroCL in case it
also has bivalent streams.

HTH,
Edi.


From keith.irwin at gmail.com  Wed Apr  6 20:27:37 2005
From: keith.irwin at gmail.com (Keith Irwin)
Date: Wed, 6 Apr 2005 13:27:37 -0700
Subject: [tbnl-devel] tbnl / sbcl 0.8.21
Message-ID: <8aff8159050406132760cbcc02@mail.gmail.com>

Folks--

I believe Edi forwarded a message I'd written about some sort of
byte-related encoding problems (or decoding) with regard to SBCL.  The
problem occurs when I want to serve up an image file as part of, say,
a background for a web site.

Does anyone want to focus my attention on any particular files, or
areas to envistigate, or should I just leave well enough alone because
you all are about ready to update the code?

Edi's comment:

> One solution might be to check if SBCL has some kind of default 
> external format which can be used to overwrite the UTF-8 format.  I
> don't use SBCL myself but I seem to remember that this might depend on
> the value of some environment variable when the image is started.
> Maybe someone else here knows the details.

> Another option would be to treat SBCL like LW and AllegroCL in case it
> also has bivalent streams.

Since I'm not a developer of TBNL nor do I intend to be, I'm not sure
what the above means.  Is the problem that TBNL is trying to read a
binary file into, uh, characters, or something?

Anyway, I'll see if I can't come up with a hack and then drop it here
in case it'll help an expert get a real fix in quicker.

Thanks,

Keith


From edi at agharta.de  Wed Apr  6 22:34:53 2005
From: edi at agharta.de (Edi Weitz)
Date: Thu, 07 Apr 2005 00:34:53 +0200
Subject: [tbnl-devel] tbnl / sbcl 0.8.21
In-Reply-To: <8aff8159050406132760cbcc02@mail.gmail.com> (Keith Irwin's
	message of "Wed, 6 Apr 2005 13:27:37 -0700")
References: <8aff8159050406132760cbcc02@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <uhdijcz5e.fsf@agharta.de>

On Wed, 6 Apr 2005 13:27:37 -0700, Keith Irwin <keith.irwin at gmail.com> wrote:

> Does anyone want to focus my attention on any particular files, or
> areas to envistigate

How does your environment look like when you start SBCL, i.e. which
locale are you using?

> Since I'm not a developer of TBNL nor do I intend to be, I'm not
> sure what the above means.  Is the problem that TBNL is trying to
> read a binary file into, uh, characters, or something?

Yes.  See here: <http://weitz.de/tbnl/#quirks>.  The problem is that
the stream you want to send the binary data to is a character stream -
or at least in the beginning, when the HTTP headers are sent to the
browser, it's a character stream.

If you use AllegroCL or LW you can have streams which are "bivalent" -
you can send characters /and/ octets to these streams, so no problem.
If, on the other hand, you use a Lisp like CMUCL which assumes that
all characters have eight bits then you don't have a problem either.

At the time when TBNL was written SBCL behaved like CMUCL so the stuff
it's now choking at just worked.  Obviously, that's not the case
anymore.

Cheers,
Edi.


From edi at agharta.de  Wed Apr  6 23:04:33 2005
From: edi at agharta.de (Edi Weitz)
Date: Thu, 07 Apr 2005 01:04:33 +0200
Subject: [tbnl-devel] tbnl / sbcl 0.8.21
In-Reply-To: <8aff81590504061543144f6591@mail.gmail.com> (Keith Irwin's
	message of "Wed, 6 Apr 2005 15:43:52 -0700")
References: <8aff8159050406132760cbcc02@mail.gmail.com>
	<uhdijcz5e.fsf@agharta.de> <8aff81590504061543144f6591@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <umzsbcxry.fsf@agharta.de>

On Wed, 6 Apr 2005 15:43:52 -0700, Keith Irwin <keith.irwin at gmail.com> wrote:

> en_US.UTF-8

If you currently don't need full Unicode support then maybe (where are
the SBCL experts?) it suffices to change this to "en_US.ISO-8859-1"
(or whatever it's called) before starting SBCL.

> Yeah.  Okay.
>
> I changed stuff in rfc2238 and araneida to use unsigned-byte 8 in a
> few with-open-files and that solves the compilation problem.
> Serving images is a different story, and I imagine if I use unicode
> chars in my content I'd get a similar prob.
>
> My current option is to serve the images using apache (an Alias in
> the config), but I tend to like to have apps that require a minimum
> of os-level config (until they're big enough to warrant that sort of
> thing).
>
> I might play with it tomorrow a bit more.

I basically agree with you that it's nice to have everything served by
the Lisp image.  However, this is almost impossible unless you have
bivalent streams.  (It is my understanding that SBCL will have them
sooner or later because the need is obvious.)  Also, note that Apache
is pretty good at serving static content.

As far as serving full Unicode content is concerned you'll actually
want more than bivalent streams - you want to have (socket) streams
that can change their character encoding on the fly.  AFAIK only CLISP
(not supported by TBNL) and AllegroCL can do that at the moment.  But
look at the Unicode example in test.lisp for an example on how this
can be done in LW with implementation-specific features.

Cheers,
Edi.


From keith.irwin at gmail.com  Wed Apr  6 23:43:57 2005
From: keith.irwin at gmail.com (Keith Irwin)
Date: Wed, 6 Apr 2005 16:43:57 -0700
Subject: [tbnl-devel] tbnl / sbcl 0.8.21
In-Reply-To: <umzsbcxry.fsf@agharta.de>
References: <8aff8159050406132760cbcc02@mail.gmail.com>
	<uhdijcz5e.fsf@agharta.de> <8aff81590504061543144f6591@mail.gmail.com>
	<umzsbcxry.fsf@agharta.de>
Message-ID: <8aff81590504061643430797eb@mail.gmail.com>

> I basically agree with you that it's nice to have everything served by
> the Lisp image.  However, this is almost impossible unless you have
> bivalent streams.  (It is my understanding that SBCL will have them
> sooner or later because the need is obvious.)  Also, note that Apache
> is pretty good at serving static content.

Okay, I'll give up on it then.  The way I've worked this out before in
my own proto http servers was to convert everything to a byte buffer
and write it all to the socket stream with element type (unsigned-byte
8) and the web browser seemed to pick it up just fine.  Not sure about
images as I never got that far.  Probably naive, but it seemed to
work.  My assumption was that whatever was reading what I was writing
was also reading the raw socket as bytes, then encoding after the
fact.

Looking at modlisp.lisp, this seemed a bit more work than just a
couple of well-placed #+sbcls. ;)

But apache works for now.

Thanks for the info.

Keith

> 
> As far as serving full Unicode content is concerned you'll actually
> want more than bivalent streams - you want to have (socket) streams
> that can change their character encoding on the fly.  AFAIK only CLISP
> (not supported by TBNL) and AllegroCL can do that at the moment.  But
> look at the Unicode example in test.lisp for an example on how this
> can be done in LW with implementation-specific features.
> 
> Cheers,
> Edi.
>


From edi at agharta.de  Mon Apr 18 16:03:01 2005
From: edi at agharta.de (Edi Weitz)
Date: Mon, 18 Apr 2005 18:03:01 +0200
Subject: [tbnl-devel] New version 0.5.5
Message-ID: <uu0m4vzre.fsf@agharta.de>

ChangeLog:

  Version 0.5.5
  2005-04-18
  Make RFC 2388 code an external dependency (thanks to Janis Dzerins)

Download:

  <http://weitz.de/files/tbnl.tar.gz>

Cheers,
Edi.


From l.trejtnar at open.ac.uk  Wed Apr 27 15:12:52 2005
From: l.trejtnar at open.ac.uk (Lukas Trejtnar)
Date: Wed, 27 Apr 2005 16:12:52 +0100
Subject: [tbnl-devel] *apache-port* changed to *tbnl-port*
Message-ID: <426FABF4.1010209@open.ac.uk>

Hi

I upgraded to a new version of Lispworks and consequently to a new 
version of TBNL and discovered that my application didn't work anymore.

I found after a while that the variable *apache-port* was renamed to 
*tbnl-port*. How can I track these significant (for me) changes? I think 
I didn't find this change in an archive of this mailing list.

Thanks
Lukas


From edi at agharta.de  Wed Apr 27 15:54:29 2005
From: edi at agharta.de (Edi Weitz)
Date: Wed, 27 Apr 2005 17:54:29 +0200
Subject: [tbnl-devel] *apache-port* changed to *tbnl-port*
In-Reply-To: <426FABF4.1010209@open.ac.uk> (Lukas Trejtnar's message of
	"Wed, 27 Apr 2005 16:12:52 +0100")
References: <426FABF4.1010209@open.ac.uk>
Message-ID: <u3btc8bbe.fsf@agharta.de>

On Wed, 27 Apr 2005 16:12:52 +0100, Lukas Trejtnar <l.trejtnar at open.ac.uk> wrote:

> I upgraded to a new version of Lispworks and consequently to a new
> version of TBNL and discovered that my application didn't work
> anymore.
>
> I found after a while that the variable *apache-port* was renamed to
> *tbnl-port*. How can I track these significant (for me) changes? I
> think I didn't find this change in an archive of this mailing list.

Sorry for that.  That was supposed to be in the changelog file but
obviously it's not in there.  I usually try to remain as
backwards-compatible as possible but after the backend changes it
didn't seem right to call this variable *APACHE-PORT* anymore.

But see the last paragraph of this email:

  <http://common-lisp.net/pipermail/tbnl-devel/2005-March/000285.html>

My only excuse is that TBNL still has a version number below 1.0... :)

Cheers,
Edi.