From edi at agharta.de Fri Jul 2 11:56:31 2004 From: edi at agharta.de (Edi Weitz) Date: Fri, 02 Jul 2004 13:56:31 +0200 Subject: [lisp-hh] Details Sonntag Message-ID: <87y8m2tyfk.fsf@bird.agharta.de> Moin! Ich war gerade beim Landesjugendring und habe den Schl?ssel abgeholt, damit wir am Sonntag auch ins Geb?ude kommen. Hier noch mal ein paar Infos f?r alle, die kommen wollen: 1. Termin: Sonntag, 04.07.04 um 14 Uhr Da einige Teilnehmer eine weite Anfahrt haben und zeitig wieder weg m?ssen, sollten wir uns bem?hen, p?nktlich anzufangen. Wer zu sp?t kommt, wird ggf. einen Teil der Vortr?ge verpassen. Ich gehe davon aus, da? wir bis maximal 19 Uhr in den LJR-R?umen sind. Wenn wir danach noch verl?ngern wollen, k?nnen wir in ein italienisches Restaurant pilgern, da? gleich in der N?he ist. Um 20.45 Uhr ist allerdings das EM-Endspiel... :) 2. Adresse: Landesjugenring Hamburg G?ntherstr. 34 D-22087 Hamburg Wer mit ?ffentlichen Verkehrsmitteln kommt, nimmt die U2 (z.B. ab Hauptbahnhof) und steigt in der Station Uhlandstra?e aus. Dort steigt man die Treppe (es gibt nur eine) hinab, macht unten eine Wende um 180 Grad nach rechts und geht dann an den Gleisen lang (durch einen Arkadengang). Nach ca. 50 bis 100 Metern ?berquert man die G?ntherstra?e und sieht auf der gegen?berliegenden Stra?enseite zwei gro?e, rot-orange Wohnh?user (Hausnummer 36 und 38, wenn ich mich recht entsinne). Auf demselben Grundst?ck, etwas weiter von der Stra?e weg hinter einer Rasenfl?che, liegt ein Flachbau, ebenfalls rot-orange, mit dem Schild "LJR 34" dran. Dort ist es. Mit dem Auto sucht man per Stadtplan oder Navigationssystem die G?ntherstra?e und dort dann einen Parkplatz in der N?he der U-Bahn-Br?cke, die die G?ntherstra?e ?berquert. Ich werde sp?testens ab 13.30 Uhr vor Ort sein und habe mein Handy dabei: 0177/6523122. 3. Verpflegung Es gibt eine kleine Kaffeek?che, und ich bringe Kaffee und Milch mit. Mineralwasser kann man dort kaufen. Wer was anderes trinken oder essen m?chte, sollte das selbst besorgen. 4. Kosten Die Raummiete betr?gt 20 Euro, die ich bereits bezahlt habe. Jeder Teilnehmer sollte 2 Euro zahlen. Wenn was ?brigbleibt, k?nnen wir das dem LJR spenden oder f?r das n?chste Meeting aufheben. 5. Netzanschlu? Der LJR hat einen ADSL-Anschlu? von Hansenet, den wir benutzen d?rfen. In unserem Vortragsraum sind drei Ethernetdosen hinter einem DHCP-Server f?r diesen Zweck freigeschaltet. Au?erdem liegt dort auch noch ein 8-Port-Hub rum. Wer ins Netz will, sollte allerdings selbst f?r Kabel sorgen. Stromanschl?sse sind auch einige vorhanden. 6. Vortragsequipment Eine kleine Vortragstafel mit Papier und Stiften steht bereit. Au?erdem k?nnen wir einen Beamer benutzen. Daf?r mu? der Vortragende jedoch selbst einen Laptop und ein VGA-Kabel mitbringen. 7. Sonstiges Der Gesch?ftsf?hrer des LJR wies mich noch darauf hin, da? sich in der N?he des Geb?udes eine "Bande" von Kindern rumtreibt, die bei Seminaren gerne mal vorbeischaut und sich, ?h, Sachen ausleiht. Wir werden daher gebeten, das Geb?ude immer verschlossen zu halten... So, mehr f?llt mir nicht ein. Noch Fragen? Bis dann, Edi. From edi at agharta.de Fri Jul 2 14:27:12 2004 From: edi at agharta.de (Edi Weitz) Date: Fri, 02 Jul 2004 16:27:12 +0200 Subject: [lisp-hh] "Newbies" Message-ID: <87acyilc1r.fsf@bird.agharta.de> Ich noch mal: Ich habe eben eine Email eines potentiellen Teilnehmers bekommen, der angesichts der angek?ndigten Vortr?ge z?gerte zu kommen, weil ihm das alles etwas zu "fortgeschritten" vorkam. Ich denke, da? das definitiv nicht der Fall ist bzw. sein mu?. Aus meiner Sicht sind Lisp-Anf?nger jederzeit hochwillkommen, und ich bin sicher, da? die erfahreneren Anwesenden gerne Fragen aller Art beantworten. Das ist auf jeden Fall effizienter als IRC oder Usenet... :) Bei Interesse k?nnen wir am Sonntag gerne z.B. eine "Fragestunde" einschieben oder beim n?chsten Mal einf?hrende Vortr?ge halten. Vielleicht ?berlegen sich die "Newbies" am Wochenende ja mal, zu welchen Themen sie gerne was h?ren w?rden. Ahoy, Edi. From uho at xlerb.de Sat Jul 3 09:02:04 2004 From: uho at xlerb.de (Ulrich Hoffmann) Date: Sat, 3 Jul 2004 11:02:04 +0200 Subject: [lisp-hh] Details Sonntag In-Reply-To: <87y8m2tyfk.fsf@bird.agharta.de> References: <87y8m2tyfk.fsf@bird.agharta.de> Message-ID: Moin Moin, > 1. Termin: Sonntag, 04.07.04 um 14 Uhr ich w?nsche Euch allen viel Spass auf dem morgigen Treffen. Ich selbst kann leider nicht kommen, da an diesem Wochenende das JazzBaltica Festival in Salzau stattfindet (f?r das ich mir schon vor langer Zeit Karten besorgt habe...) Statt ?ber Lisp zu diskutieren, werde ich also Dianne Reeves lauschen. Auch was Sch?nes. Beim n?chsten mal bin ich hoffentlich wieder dabei. Bis dann, Ulli (Ulrich Hoffmann, Eckernf?rde/Kiel) From a.thieme at freenet.de Sat Jul 3 15:36:17 2004 From: a.thieme at freenet.de (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Andr=E9_Thieme?=) Date: Sat, 03 Jul 2004 17:36:17 +0200 Subject: [lisp-hh] =?iso-8859-1?q?F=E4hrt_jemand_aus_Kiel=3F?= In-Reply-To: References: <87y8m2tyfk.fsf@bird.agharta.de> Message-ID: <40E6D271.1050704@freenet.de> Hallo, an jene, die morgen zum Lisp-Treffen erscheinen m?chten: kommt jemand von euch aus Kiel und f?hrt mit dem Auto? W?re sch?n, wenn es eine M?glichkeit g?be, dass ich evtl. mitfahren k?nnte. Gr??e aus Kiel, Andr? From luke at member.fsf.org Mon Jul 5 01:48:24 2004 From: luke at member.fsf.org (Luke Gorrie) Date: Mon, 05 Jul 2004 03:48:24 +0200 Subject: [lisp-hh] Hi Message-ID: Howdy, Does it make any sense to turn up at one of these meetings without speaking German? If so I'd quite like to pop in some time. I'd like to have gone to yesterday's meeting but I need about two weeks notice to get a cheap Ryanair flight from Stockholm. Cheers, Luke From alemmens at xs4all.nl Mon Jul 5 07:54:36 2004 From: alemmens at xs4all.nl (Arthur Lemmens) Date: Mon, 05 Jul 2004 09:54:36 +0200 Subject: [lisp-hh] Hi In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi Luke, > Does it make any sense to turn up at one of these meetings without > speaking German? I'm just back from the meeting that took place yesterday. Jim Newton's description of his company was in English, my talk (about persistence techniques) was in English, Hans Huebner's talk (about some ways he has used persistence for his applications) was half German half English (he started in German but when I asked questions in English he switched to English) and Pascal Costanza's talk was in German. The general conversation was also a nice mix of English and German, with a couple of Dutch sentences in between. I think everybody in the room was comfortable with English. So my answer is: yes, don't worry if you don't speak German. The best way to guarantee that some of the talks are in English is by giving a talk yourself, of course ;-) There were about 20 people present yesterday (from the Netherlands, Munich, Berlin, Hamburg and probably a few other places in Germany). I think it was a great meeting with lots of interesting discussions. And it's always nice to see the faces behind names that you only know from the Internet. Regards, Arthur From edi at agharta.de Mon Jul 5 09:06:35 2004 From: edi at agharta.de (Edi Weitz) Date: Mon, 05 Jul 2004 11:06:35 +0200 Subject: [lisp-hh] Hi In-Reply-To: (Arthur Lemmens's message of "Mon, 05 Jul 2004 09:54:36 +0200") References: Message-ID: <873c46q0v8.fsf@bird.agharta.de> On Mon, 05 Jul 2004 09:54:36 +0200, Arthur Lemmens wrote: > I'm just back from the meeting that took place yesterday. Jim > Newton's description of his company was in English, my talk (about > persistence techniques) was in English, Hans Huebner's talk (about > some ways he has used persistence for his applications) was half > German half English (he started in German but when I asked questions > in English he switched to English) and Pascal Costanza's talk was in > German. > > The general conversation was also a nice mix of English and German, > with a couple of Dutch sentences in between. I think everybody in > the room was comfortable with English. > > So my answer is: yes, don't worry if you don't speak German. I second that. I think it'd be no problem at all to have an English-only meeting (except for the occasional "Ist noch Kaffee da?") if there are enough non-native speakers. (For a suitable value of "enough" - I think one or two guests are enough to switch to English... :) > The best way to guarantee that some of the talks are in English is > by giving a talk yourself, of course ;-) Yep. It'd be great if you (Luke) could make it to the next meeting and talk about, say, SLIME. Or maybe even better give a live demo of how you actually use it. > There were about 20 people present yesterday (from the Netherlands, > Munich, Berlin, Hamburg and probably a few other places in Germany). Cologne, Oldenburg, Kiel... > I think it was a great meeting with lots of interesting discussions. > And it's always nice to see the faces behind names that you only > know from the Internet. I'm not sure if we'll have that many people for the next meeting but who knows. Lisp is definitely not dead, it just smells funny... :) Cheers, Edi. From costanza at web.de Mon Jul 5 12:03:19 2004 From: costanza at web.de (Pascal Costanza) Date: Mon, 05 Jul 2004 14:03:19 +0200 Subject: [lisp-hh] My MOP talk, some further remarks... Message-ID: <40E94387.9050301@web.de> Hi, Sometimes, you know better ways to answer questions that have come up during a talk after you've returned home. So in this case. There was a question wrt to the LispWorks MOP and its introspection capabilities. It seems to me now that I have left the impression that one cannot inspect a class for its (declared or effective) slots. This is not true. In fact, all the slots that you define as usual in a defclass form are still available as slot-definition objects and can be queried, and so on. The only difference between the AMOP specification and the LispWorks MOP in this regard is that the slot-xxx-using-class generic functions are passed a slot-definition metaobject as the third parameter in AMOP, but the slot name in LispWorks. Of course, one cannot query a class for the slots that happen to have been added to single instances after they have been created in the hash-table-based classes - after all, the purpose of those is to add potentially unknown slots after the fact. However, it's possible a) to query single instances for slots that they know about and b) to add more functionality to the hash-table-based class so that it keeps track of all the slots that have been added to instances thereof, and then it would be possible to query that (potentially growing) set. You will just not be able to query them as slot-definition metaobjects, that's all. On a different note: There was one remark about slot-makunbound-using-class being too liberal with regard to an object's hash table. We have been drawn into a discussion whether one way or the other is better. However, what I have been missing and is more important here is the fact that we don't have to agree here. The cool thing about the MOP is that everyone can have the object model that suits them most for the given task at hand. I think it's important to stress this once more because it takes a little getting used to the fact that there is no one single right way to do things. Pascal -- Pascal Costanza University of Bonn mailto:costanza at web.de Institute of Computer Science III http://www.pascalcostanza.de R?merstr. 164, D-53117 Bonn (Germany) From jimka at rdrop.com Mon Jul 5 21:50:28 2004 From: jimka at rdrop.com (Jim Newton) Date: Mon, 05 Jul 2004 23:50:28 +0200 Subject: [lisp-hh] Hi In-Reply-To: <873c46q0v8.fsf@bird.agharta.de> References: <873c46q0v8.fsf@bird.agharta.de> Message-ID: <40E9CD24.1040400@rdrop.com> hi edi, when is the next meeting, by the way? > > I'm not sure if we'll have that many people for the next meeting but -jim From edi at agharta.de Mon Jul 5 23:13:57 2004 From: edi at agharta.de (Edi Weitz) Date: Tue, 06 Jul 2004 01:13:57 +0200 Subject: [lisp-hh] Hi In-Reply-To: <40E9CD24.1040400@rdrop.com> (Jim Newton's message of "Mon, 05 Jul 2004 23:50:28 +0200") References: <873c46q0v8.fsf@bird.agharta.de> <40E9CD24.1040400@rdrop.com> Message-ID: <873c46avyi.fsf@bird.agharta.de> On Mon, 05 Jul 2004 23:50:28 +0200, Jim Newton wrote: > hi edi, when is the next meeting, by the way? No plans yet. I think we should aim at September or October. Did you get your plane? Cheers, Edi. From a.thieme at freenet.de Tue Jul 6 00:53:41 2004 From: a.thieme at freenet.de (=?ISO-8859-15?Q?Andr=E9_Thieme?=) Date: Tue, 06 Jul 2004 02:53:41 +0200 Subject: [lisp-hh] Hi In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <40E9F815.5080301@freenet.de> Arthur Lemmens schrieb: > There were about 20 people present yesterday (from the Netherlands, > Munich, Berlin, Hamburg and probably a few other places in Germany). Yes, just wanted to add Kiel. Regards, Andr? From luke at member.fsf.org Mon Jul 12 19:13:26 2004 From: luke at member.fsf.org (Luke Gorrie) Date: Mon, 12 Jul 2004 21:13:26 +0200 Subject: [lisp-hh] Hi In-Reply-To: <873c46q0v8.fsf@bird.agharta.de> (Edi Weitz's message of "Mon, 05 Jul 2004 11:06:35 +0200") References: <873c46q0v8.fsf@bird.agharta.de> Message-ID: Edi Weitz writes: > Yep. It'd be great if you (Luke) could make it to the next meeting and > talk about, say, SLIME. Or maybe even better give a live demo of how > you actually use it. I haven't really had a chance to /use/ SLIME yet, but I'll try to wing it all the same. :-) -Luke From edi at agharta.de Mon Jul 12 19:21:40 2004 From: edi at agharta.de (Edi Weitz) Date: Mon, 12 Jul 2004 21:21:40 +0200 Subject: [lisp-hh] Hi In-Reply-To: (Luke Gorrie's message of "Mon, 12 Jul 2004 21:13:26 +0200") References: <873c46q0v8.fsf@bird.agharta.de> Message-ID: <87oeml3ubf.fsf@bird.agharta.de> On Mon, 12 Jul 2004 21:13:26 +0200, Luke Gorrie wrote: > I haven't really had a chance to /use/ SLIME yet A pity. You should try it, it's cool... :)