From luismbo at gmail.com  Mon Aug  6 16:14:35 2007
From: luismbo at gmail.com (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Lu=EDs_Oliveira?=)
Date: Mon, 6 Aug 2007 17:14:35 +0100
Subject: [iolib-devel] Re: On iolib-posix, OSICAT and FFI interfaces
In-Reply-To: <6bcc356f0707272058h19a218c8qe6c633bce3e79447@mail.gmail.com>
References: <20070727233428.GA1575243@universe.org>
	<6bcc356f0707272058h19a218c8qe6c633bce3e79447@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <391f79580708060914j346fa5a2o2fc936914f40013d@mail.gmail.com>

On 28/07/07, Nikodemus Siivola <nikodemus at random-state.net> wrote:
>  OSICAT: something very much like now, including pathname functions
>  like NATIVE-NAMESTRING and PARSE-NATIVE-NAMESTRING. Nice and lispy,
>  portable across multiple platforms -- either using interfaces that
>  are flexible enough, or staying clear of platform specific hair even
>  when it means missing functionality.
>
>  WIN32-SYS & POSIX-SYS: low-level APIs. Should be possible to use
>  without thinking about "CFFI", or "Alien", or whatever the FFI layer is.
>  As high-level as possible while remaining an accurate mapping and as low-level
>  as it needs to be for the needs of accuracy and efficiency.

Here's a first shot at that. Includes texinfo documentation, tests and
a few new functions mostly stolen from cl-fad:

   git clone http://common-lisp.net/~loliveira/soc07/osicat.git

(Converted the CVS history to Git.)

The posix module works, compiles and passes all tests on windows but I
haven't tested the high-level bits yet or thought about how to handle
the missing functionality there at all.

I don't have any immediate plans to work much more on it at least
until August 20th except for perhaps updating the Osicat webpage
if/when you (Nikodemus and the others) feel this branch is OK.

-- 
Lu?s Oliveira
http://student.dei.uc.pt/~lmoliv/


From luismbo at gmail.com  Mon Aug  6 16:17:28 2007
From: luismbo at gmail.com (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Lu=EDs_Oliveira?=)
Date: Mon, 6 Aug 2007 17:17:28 +0100
Subject: [iolib-devel] Re: On iolib-posix, OSICAT and FFI interfaces
In-Reply-To: <391f79580708060914j346fa5a2o2fc936914f40013d@mail.gmail.com>
References: <20070727233428.GA1575243@universe.org>
	<6bcc356f0707272058h19a218c8qe6c633bce3e79447@mail.gmail.com>
	<391f79580708060914j346fa5a2o2fc936914f40013d@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <391f79580708060917l222599d5i225720ce9f759ff8@mail.gmail.com>

On 06/08/07, Lu?s Oliveira <luismbo at gmail.com> wrote:
> The posix module works, compiles and passes all tests on windows but I
> haven't tested the high-level bits yet or thought about how to handle
> the missing functionality there at all.

That sentence is probably a bit misleading. All tests -- both the ones
for the posix module and Osicat's high-level interface -- pass on
Linux and Darwin.

-- 
Lu?s Oliveira
http://student.dei.uc.pt/~lmoliv/


From nikodemus at random-state.net  Mon Aug  6 22:00:44 2007
From: nikodemus at random-state.net (Nikodemus Siivola)
Date: Tue, 7 Aug 2007 01:00:44 +0300
Subject: [iolib-devel] Re: On iolib-posix, OSICAT and FFI interfaces
In-Reply-To: <391f79580708060914j346fa5a2o2fc936914f40013d@mail.gmail.com>
References: <20070727233428.GA1575243@universe.org>
	<6bcc356f0707272058h19a218c8qe6c633bce3e79447@mail.gmail.com>
	<391f79580708060914j346fa5a2o2fc936914f40013d@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <6bcc356f0708061500nf96ae16v15e4e9b50ca1616f@mail.gmail.com>

Erik, please add Luis Oliviera to the Osicat group.

On 8/6/07, Lu?s Oliveira <luismbo at gmail.com> wrote:

> Here's a first shot at that. Includes texinfo documentation, tests and
> a few new functions mostly stolen from cl-fad:
>
>    git clone http://common-lisp.net/~loliveira/soc07/osicat.git
>
> (Converted the CVS history to Git.)
>
> The posix module works, compiles and passes all tests on windows but I
> haven't tested the high-level bits yet or thought about how to handle
> the missing functionality there at all.
>
> I don't have any immediate plans to work much more on it at least
> until August 20th except for perhaps updating the Osicat webpage
> if/when you (Nikodemus and the others) feel this branch is OK.

Haven't looked at it yet, and won't have time for a few days at least
-- but great! Once the commit bit arrives you can move the repo under
Osicat directory. :)

Cheers,

 -- Nikodemus

From nikodemus at random-state.net  Tue Aug  7 10:28:45 2007
From: nikodemus at random-state.net (Nikodemus Siivola)
Date: Tue, 7 Aug 2007 13:28:45 +0300
Subject: [iolib-devel] Re: On iolib-posix, OSICAT and FFI interfaces
In-Reply-To: <391f79580708060914j346fa5a2o2fc936914f40013d@mail.gmail.com>
References: <20070727233428.GA1575243@universe.org>
	<6bcc356f0707272058h19a218c8qe6c633bce3e79447@mail.gmail.com>
	<391f79580708060914j346fa5a2o2fc936914f40013d@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <6bcc356f0708070328t60d9be1cu26d50ba061af0f11@mail.gmail.com>

On 8/6/07, Lu?s Oliveira <luismbo at gmail.com> wrote:
> On 28/07/07, Nikodemus Siivola <nikodemus at random-state.net> wrote:
> >  OSICAT: something very much like now, including pathname functions
> >  like NATIVE-NAMESTRING and PARSE-NATIVE-NAMESTRING. Nice and lispy,
> >  portable across multiple platforms -- either using interfaces that
> >  are flexible enough, or staying clear of platform specific hair even
> >  when it means missing functionality.
> >
> >  WIN32-SYS & POSIX-SYS: low-level APIs. Should be possible to use
> >  without thinking about "CFFI", or "Alien", or whatever the FFI layer is.
> >  As high-level as possible while remaining an accurate mapping and as low-level
> >  as it needs to be for the needs of accuracy and efficiency.
>
> Here's a first shot at that. Includes texinfo documentation, tests and
> a few new functions mostly stolen from cl-fad:
>
>    git clone http://common-lisp.net/~loliveira/soc07/osicat.git
>
> (Converted the CVS history to Git.)
>
> The posix module works, compiles and passes all tests on windows but I
> haven't tested the high-level bits yet or thought about how to handle
> the missing functionality there at all.
>
> I don't have any immediate plans to work much more on it at least
> until August 20th except for perhaps updating the Osicat webpage
> if/when you (Nikodemus and the others) feel this branch is OK.

I managed to spend a _very_ short while looking at it. Looking good.

The only things I'm unhappy about are grabbing package names like
MACH. On one hand, I fully see the motivation for terse (and descriptive!)
names, since those packages are liable to contain symbols named directly
after the native interfaces available -- so they are going to be mostly
used with explicit package prefixes, but...

Few options come to mind:

 (a) Use names like OSIX, OSMACH, OSWIN -- compromise between putting
     them in the OSICAT "namespace" and using something terse.

 (b) Prefix the symbol names. I'm not suggesting prefixing them with "OSICAT-",
     but rather possibly "-" or "_". Ugly, but practically speaking allows the
     packages to be USE-PACKAGE'd, so having a long package name like
OSICAT-POSIX
     is ok.

 (c) Reader macro magic.

I'm inclined towards (a), but can live with others as well.

Other stuff (aka directions to move in): while I'm OK with having OSICAT-POSIX /
OSIX on Windows, in the long term the Windows side should probably not build on
it. (Ditto if there are things that are more naturally done using the
mach interfaces
on Darwin.) So things like USER-INFO should be calling GetUserName (or whatever)
on Windows, not getpwnam &co. So that everything doesn't become a huge
#+foo mess,
there should be src/windows.lisp, which implements the nonportable contents of
src/osicat.lisp for Windows, etc.

Cheers,

 -- Nikodemus

From luismbo at gmail.com  Tue Aug  7 15:05:39 2007
From: luismbo at gmail.com (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Lu=EDs_Oliveira?=)
Date: Tue, 7 Aug 2007 16:05:39 +0100
Subject: [iolib-devel] Re: On iolib-posix, OSICAT and FFI interfaces
In-Reply-To: <6bcc356f0708070328t60d9be1cu26d50ba061af0f11@mail.gmail.com>
References: <20070727233428.GA1575243@universe.org>
	<6bcc356f0707272058h19a218c8qe6c633bce3e79447@mail.gmail.com>
	<391f79580708060914j346fa5a2o2fc936914f40013d@mail.gmail.com>
	<6bcc356f0708070328t60d9be1cu26d50ba061af0f11@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <391f79580708070805w3933e11fo8541cf6562b08d02@mail.gmail.com>

On 07/08/07, Nikodemus Siivola <nikodemus at random-state.net> wrote:
> The only things I'm unhappy about are grabbing package names like
> MACH.  [...]
>  (a) Use names like OSIX, OSMACH, OSWIN -- compromise between putting
>      them in the OSICAT "namespace" and using something terse.

Those names do sound like a good compromise. (And I think Corman
already uses WIN.) What do you think Stelian? Also, OSIMACH and
OSIWIN? Or is that one character too many?


> Other stuff (aka directions to move in): while I'm OK with having OSICAT-POSIX /
> OSIX on Windows, in the long term the Windows side should probably not build on
> it.

Sure.


> So that everything doesn't become a huge #+foo mess,
> there should be src/windows.lisp, which implements the nonportable contents of
> src/osicat.lisp for Windows, etc.

Agreed. That approach worked really well for CFFI.

-- 
Lu?s Oliveira
http://student.dei.uc.pt/~lmoliv/


From sionescu at common-lisp.net  Tue Aug  7 19:05:11 2007
From: sionescu at common-lisp.net (Stelian Ionescu)
Date: Tue, 7 Aug 2007 21:05:11 +0200
Subject: [iolib-devel] Re: On iolib-posix, OSICAT and FFI interfaces
In-Reply-To: <391f79580708070805w3933e11fo8541cf6562b08d02@mail.gmail.com>
References: <20070727233428.GA1575243@universe.org>
	<6bcc356f0707272058h19a218c8qe6c633bce3e79447@mail.gmail.com>
	<391f79580708060914j346fa5a2o2fc936914f40013d@mail.gmail.com>
	<6bcc356f0708070328t60d9be1cu26d50ba061af0f11@mail.gmail.com>
	<391f79580708070805w3933e11fo8541cf6562b08d02@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20070807190511.GA129084@universe.org>

On Tue, Aug 07, 2007 at 04:05:39PM +0100, Luis Oliveira wrote:
>On 07/08/07, Nikodemus Siivola <nikodemus at random-state.net> wrote:
>> The only things I'm unhappy about are grabbing package names like
>> MACH.  [...]
>>  (a) Use names like OSIX, OSMACH, OSWIN -- compromise between putting
>>      them in the OSICAT "namespace" and using something terse.
>
>Those names do sound like a good compromise. (And I think Corman
>already uses WIN.) What do you think Stelian? Also, OSIMACH and
>OSIWIN? Or is that one character too many?

I think OSWIN and OSIX(OSNIX ?) are ok(maybe nicknamed OW and OX :) )
about Mach, I don't think it should have a package on its own,
especially since the only Mach system used around is Darwin/OSX which is
almost identical to a FreeBSD. perhaps one day a brave coder will want
to port everything on GNU/Hurd and we'll have OSHURD :D

>> Other stuff (aka directions to move in): while I'm OK with having OSICAT-POSIX /
>> OSIX on Windows, in the long term the Windows side should probably not build on
>> it.
>
>Sure.

I agree too

-- 
(sign :name "Stelian Ionescu" :aka "fe[nl]ix"
      :quote "Quidquid latine dictum sit, altum videtur.")
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From erik.enge at gmail.com  Fri Aug 10 03:43:37 2007
From: erik.enge at gmail.com (Erik Enge)
Date: Thu, 9 Aug 2007 23:43:37 -0400
Subject: [iolib-devel] Re: [admin] Re: On iolib-posix,
	OSICAT and FFI interfaces
In-Reply-To: <6bcc356f0708061500nf96ae16v15e4e9b50ca1616f@mail.gmail.com>
References: <20070727233428.GA1575243@universe.org>
	<6bcc356f0707272058h19a218c8qe6c633bce3e79447@mail.gmail.com>
	<391f79580708060914j346fa5a2o2fc936914f40013d@mail.gmail.com>
	<6bcc356f0708061500nf96ae16v15e4e9b50ca1616f@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <58f839b70708092043x2731fa8cm92c73c6775d3b424@mail.gmail.com>

Done.

On 8/6/07, Nikodemus Siivola <nikodemus at random-state.net> wrote:
> Erik, please add Luis Oliviera to the Osicat group.
>
> On 8/6/07, Lu?s Oliveira <luismbo at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > Here's a first shot at that. Includes texinfo documentation, tests and
> > a few new functions mostly stolen from cl-fad:
> >
> >    git clone http://common-lisp.net/~loliveira/soc07/osicat.git
> >
> > (Converted the CVS history to Git.)
> >
> > The posix module works, compiles and passes all tests on windows but I
> > haven't tested the high-level bits yet or thought about how to handle
> > the missing functionality there at all.
> >
> > I don't have any immediate plans to work much more on it at least
> > until August 20th except for perhaps updating the Osicat webpage
> > if/when you (Nikodemus and the others) feel this branch is OK.
>
> Haven't looked at it yet, and won't have time for a few days at least
> -- but great! Once the commit bit arrives you can move the repo under
> Osicat directory. :)
>
> Cheers,
>
>  -- Nikodemus
>
> _______________________________________________
> admin mailing list
> admin at common-lisp.net
> http://common-lisp.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/admin
>