From reddaly at gmail.com Sun Dec 10 08:30:47 2006 From: reddaly at gmail.com (Red Daly) Date: Sun, 10 Dec 2006 00:30:47 -0800 Subject: [elephant-devel] John McCarthy's Elephant 2000 Message-ID: <457BC5B7.5010308@gmail.com> I am wondering if you elephant developers have recognized your namespace collision with John McCarthy's Elephant 2000 Programming Language Based on Speech Acts :) I do not know much about it other than some anecdotal information from a professor of mine. He said a few years ago he saw Professor McCarthy making photocopies of his new Elephant 2000 manuscript. My professor asked him about Elephant, and he told him "it's a new language I'm working on--without any parentheses. I have written too many parentheses in my life, so elephant doesn't have any!" Here is a web site by McCarthy about elephant: http://www-formal.stanford.edu/jmc/elephant/elephant.html Hope you enjoy! Keep up the good work on the Elephant Object Database, and I look forward to the next release. -red daly From eslick at csail.mit.edu Sun Dec 10 19:19:45 2006 From: eslick at csail.mit.edu (Ian Eslick) Date: Sun, 10 Dec 2006 14:19:45 -0500 Subject: [elephant-devel] John McCarthy's Elephant 2000 In-Reply-To: <457BC5B7.5010308@gmail.com> References: <457BC5B7.5010308@gmail.com> Message-ID: <8E59C09E-1C01-40B2-8BC3-56D3D6E21168@csail.mit.edu> Actually I did notice that when I first started working with Elephant. Elephant the language is an interesting concept, and probably way ahead of its time (my own research explores a variant on some of the underlying principles), but I don't think the collision is anything to worry about unless both Elephant's become widely popular (1k's to 10k's of users) which I think unlikely. :) Cheers, Ian PS - Sorry for the delay in my changes, I got sidetracked by the birth of two healthy girls a week earlier than originally expected. Anyway, should get the current changes set promoted over the next week. If anyone is really gunning to help with the next release I can point out what needs to be done and tested and go ahead and commit my current change set...otherwise you'll have to wait a bit. On Dec 10, 2006, at 3:30 AM, Red Daly wrote: > I am wondering if you elephant developers have recognized your > namespace > collision with John McCarthy's Elephant 2000 Programming Language > Based > on Speech Acts :) > > I do not know much about it other than some anecdotal information > from a > professor of mine. He said a few years ago he saw Professor McCarthy > making photocopies of his new Elephant 2000 manuscript. My professor > asked him about Elephant, and he told him "it's a new language I'm > working on--without any parentheses. I have written too many > parentheses in my life, so elephant doesn't have any!" > > Here is a web site by McCarthy about elephant: > http://www-formal.stanford.edu/jmc/elephant/elephant.html > > Hope you enjoy! Keep up the good work on the Elephant Object > Database, > and I look forward to the next release. > > -red daly > > > > _______________________________________________ > elephant-devel site list > elephant-devel at common-lisp.net > http://common-lisp.net/mailman/listinfo/elephant-devel From nowhere.man at levallois.eu.org Sun Dec 10 23:15:46 2006 From: nowhere.man at levallois.eu.org (Pierre THIERRY) Date: Mon, 11 Dec 2006 00:15:46 +0100 Subject: [elephant-devel] John McCarthy's Elephant 2000 In-Reply-To: <8E59C09E-1C01-40B2-8BC3-56D3D6E21168@csail.mit.edu> References: <457BC5B7.5010308@gmail.com> <8E59C09E-1C01-40B2-8BC3-56D3D6E21168@csail.mit.edu> Message-ID: <20061210231546.GB6899@bateleur.arcanes.fr.eu.org> Scribit Ian Eslick dies 10/12/2006 hora 14:19: > I got sidetracked by the birth of two healthy girls a week earlier > than originally expected. Congratulations! I hope everyone is fine. Welcome to the girls. > If anyone is really gunning to help with the next release I can point > out what needs to be done and tested and go ahead and commit my > current change set... I'm really wanting to contribute as soon as possible, so I'd welcome it. Quickly, Pierre -- nowhere.man at levallois.eu.org OpenPGP 0xD9D50D8A -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: Digital signature URL: From fungsin.lui at gmail.com Thu Dec 14 02:45:18 2006 From: fungsin.lui at gmail.com (Lui Fungsin) Date: Wed, 13 Dec 2006 18:45:18 -0800 Subject: [elephant-devel] Fail to load elephant 0.60 on fedora core 4 + sbcl Message-ID: <3990b5930612131845y5d11e115k10d43681c0e97270@mail.gmail.com> Hi all, I was wondering if anyone can help here. I tried to compile elephant 0.60 on fedora core 4 + sbcl 0.9.16 + bdb43 but got stuck with an error. I also tried the cvs version which failed to compile the c file at this line errno = db->compact(db, txnid, &DBTStart, &DBTStop, NULL, flags, &DBTEnd); Since elephant depends on so many components (lisp implementation, OS, bdb 4.3 / 4.4, clsql... etc), it is a lot of work to find out what combination works and what doesn't. I usually use lispworks (win32 or linux) with most of Ediware. Since elephant does not support lispworks, I need to find another setup that works with elephant + Ediware. It would be great if people can report their working setup. (BTW, lispworks and ACL are really solid. Since ACL is untouchable by most people, I really wished that elephant can support lispworks in the future.) Thanks! -- Fungsin ;; config.lisp changes for 0.60 (defparameter *sleepycat-foreign-library-path* "/lib/libdb-4.3.so") (defparameter *sleepycat-pthreads-path* "/lib/libpthread-2.3.5.so") ;; following the instructions from the INSTALL file This is SBCL 0.9.16, an implementation of ANSI Common Lisp. * (asdf:operate 'asdf:load-op :elephant) * (asdf:operate 'asdf:load-op :ele-bdb) * (asdf:operate 'asdf:load-op :rt) * (asdf:operate 'asdf:load-op :elephant-tests) ...... ; file: /home/test/apps/cl/elephant-0.6.0/tests/testindexing.lisp ; in: DEFUN ELEPHANT-TESTS::NORMAL-RANGE-LOOKUP ; (ELEPHANT-TESTS::STRESS1 ELEPHANT-TESTS::VAL) ; ; caught STYLE-WARNING: ; undefined function: ELEPHANT-TESTS::STRESS1 ; ; caught STYLE-WARNING: ; This function is undefined: ; ELEPHANT-TESTS::STRESS1 ; ; compilation unit finished ; caught 2 STYLE-WARNING conditions ; printed 1 note NIL * (in-package :ele-tests) # * (setf *default-spec* *testbdb-spec*) (:BDB "/home/test/apps/cl/elephant-0.6.0/tests/testdb/") * (do-backend-tests) debugger invoked on a SLEEPYCAT::DB-ERROR in thread #: Berkeley DB error: Invalid argument Type HELP for debugger help, or (SB-EXT:QUIT) to exit from SBCL. restarts (invokable by number or by possibly-abbreviated name): 0: [ABORT] Exit debugger, returning to top level. (SLEEPYCAT::DB-ENV-OPEN # "/home/test/apps/cl/elephant-0.6.0/tests/testdb/" :JOINENV NIL :INIT-CDB NIL :INIT-LOCK T :INIT-LOG T :INIT-MPOOL T :INIT-REP NIL :INIT-TXN T :RECOVER NIL :RECOVER-FATAL NIL :CREATE T :LOCKDOWN NIL :PRIVATE NIL :SYSTEM-MEM NIL :THREAD T :MODE 416) 0]:backtrace 0: (SLEEPYCAT::DB-ENV-OPEN # "/home/test/apps/cl/elephant-0.6.0/tests/testdb/" :JOINENV NIL :INIT-CDB NIL :INIT-LOCK T :INIT-LOG T :INIT-MPOOL T :INIT-REP NIL :INIT-TXN T :RECOVER NIL :RECOVER-FATAL NIL :CREATE T :LOCKDOWN NIL :PRIVATE NIL :SYSTEM-MEM NIL :THREAD T :MODE 416) 1: ((SB-PCL::FAST-METHOD ELEPHANT::OPEN-CONTROLLER (SLEEPYCAT::BDB-STORE-CONTROLLER)) (#(3 2) . #()) # # (:RECOVER NIL :RECOVER-FATAL NIL :THREAD T)) 2: (OPEN-STORE (:BDB "/home/test/apps/cl/elephant-0.6.0/tests/testdb/") :RECOVER NIL :RECOVER-FATAL NIL :THREAD T) 3: (DO-BACKEND-TESTS (:BDB "/home/test/apps/cl/elephant-0.6.0/tests/testdb/")) 4: (SB-INT:EVAL-IN-LEXENV (DO-BACKEND-TESTS) #) 5: (SB-EXT:INTERACTIVE-EVAL (DO-BACKEND-TESTS)) 6: (SB-IMPL::REPL-FUN NIL) 7: ((LAMBDA ())) 8: ((LAMBDA ())) 9: (SB-IMPL::%WITH-REBOUND-IO-SYNTAX #) 10: (SB-IMPL::TOPLEVEL-REPL NIL) 11: (SB-IMPL::TOPLEVEL-INIT) 12: ((LABELS SB-IMPL::RESTART-LISP)) From eslick at csail.mit.edu Thu Dec 14 14:53:42 2006 From: eslick at csail.mit.edu (Ian Eslick) Date: Thu, 14 Dec 2006 09:53:42 -0500 Subject: [elephant-devel] Fail to load elephant 0.60 on fedora core 4 + sbcl In-Reply-To: <3990b5930612131845y5d11e115k10d43681c0e97270@mail.gmail.com> References: <3990b5930612131845y5d11e115k10d43681c0e97270@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: What was your error with 0.6.0 on fedora and SBCL 0.9.16? That configuration should work. The current CVS HEAD requires BDB 4.4 to compile correctly. HEAD is not guaranteed to be stable and should only be used by developers. Lispworks should work with 0.6.0, we just don't have people who test it regularly and none of the developers use it. If you would like to test the releases for Lispworks it should be easier to maintain a working version. Regards, Ian On Dec 13, 2006, at 9:45 PM, Lui Fungsin wrote: > Hi all, > > I was wondering if anyone can help here. I tried to compile elephant > 0.60 on fedora core 4 + sbcl 0.9.16 + bdb43 but got stuck with an > error. > > I also tried the cvs version which failed to compile the c file at > this line > > errno = db->compact(db, txnid, > &DBTStart, > &DBTStop, > NULL, > flags, > &DBTEnd); > > > Since elephant depends on so many components (lisp implementation, OS, > bdb 4.3 / 4.4, clsql... etc), it is a lot of work to find out what > combination works and what doesn't. > > I usually use lispworks (win32 or linux) with most of Ediware. Since > elephant does not support lispworks, I need to find another setup that > works with elephant + Ediware. > > It would be great if people can report their working setup. (BTW, > lispworks and ACL are really solid. Since ACL is untouchable by most > people, I really wished that elephant can support lispworks in the > future.) > > Thanks! > -- Fungsin > > ;; config.lisp changes for 0.60 > > (defparameter *sleepycat-foreign-library-path* > "/lib/libdb-4.3.so") > > (defparameter *sleepycat-pthreads-path* > "/lib/libpthread-2.3.5.so") > > ;; following the instructions from the INSTALL file > > This is SBCL 0.9.16, an implementation of ANSI Common Lisp. > > * (asdf:operate 'asdf:load-op :elephant) > * (asdf:operate 'asdf:load-op :ele-bdb) > * (asdf:operate 'asdf:load-op :rt) > * (asdf:operate 'asdf:load-op :elephant-tests) > ...... > ; file: /home/test/apps/cl/elephant-0.6.0/tests/testindexing.lisp > ; in: DEFUN ELEPHANT-TESTS::NORMAL-RANGE-LOOKUP > ; (ELEPHANT-TESTS::STRESS1 ELEPHANT-TESTS::VAL) > ; > ; caught STYLE-WARNING: > ; undefined function: ELEPHANT-TESTS::STRESS1 > > ; > ; caught STYLE-WARNING: > ; This function is undefined: > ; ELEPHANT-TESTS::STRESS1 > ; > ; compilation unit finished > ; caught 2 STYLE-WARNING conditions > ; printed 1 note > NIL > * (in-package :ele-tests) > > # > * (setf *default-spec* *testbdb-spec*) > > (:BDB "/home/test/apps/cl/elephant-0.6.0/tests/testdb/") > * (do-backend-tests) > > debugger invoked on a SLEEPYCAT::DB-ERROR in thread # thread" {A62F531}>: > Berkeley DB error: Invalid argument > > Type HELP for debugger help, or (SB-EXT:QUIT) to exit from SBCL. > > restarts (invokable by number or by possibly-abbreviated name): > 0: [ABORT] Exit debugger, returning to top level. > > (SLEEPYCAT::DB-ENV-OPEN > # > "/home/test/apps/cl/elephant-0.6.0/tests/testdb/" > :JOINENV > NIL > :INIT-CDB > NIL > :INIT-LOCK > T > :INIT-LOG > T > :INIT-MPOOL > T > :INIT-REP > NIL > :INIT-TXN > T > :RECOVER > NIL > :RECOVER-FATAL > NIL > :CREATE > T > :LOCKDOWN > NIL > :PRIVATE > NIL > :SYSTEM-MEM > NIL > :THREAD > T > :MODE > 416) > 0]:backtrace > > 0: (SLEEPYCAT::DB-ENV-OPEN > # > "/home/test/apps/cl/elephant-0.6.0/tests/testdb/" > :JOINENV > NIL > :INIT-CDB > NIL > :INIT-LOCK > T > :INIT-LOG > T > :INIT-MPOOL > T > :INIT-REP > NIL > :INIT-TXN > T > :RECOVER > NIL > :RECOVER-FATAL > NIL > :CREATE > T > :LOCKDOWN > NIL > :PRIVATE > NIL > :SYSTEM-MEM > NIL > :THREAD > T > :MODE > 416) > 1: ((SB-PCL::FAST-METHOD ELEPHANT::OPEN-CONTROLLER > (SLEEPYCAT::BDB-STORE-CONTROLLER)) > (#(3 2) . #()) > # > # > (:RECOVER NIL :RECOVER-FATAL NIL :THREAD T)) > 2: (OPEN-STORE > (:BDB "/home/test/apps/cl/elephant-0.6.0/tests/testdb/") > :RECOVER > NIL > :RECOVER-FATAL > NIL > :THREAD > T) > 3: (DO-BACKEND-TESTS (:BDB "/home/test/apps/cl/elephant-0.6.0/tests/ > testdb/")) > 4: (SB-INT:EVAL-IN-LEXENV (DO-BACKEND-TESTS) #) > 5: (SB-EXT:INTERACTIVE-EVAL (DO-BACKEND-TESTS)) > 6: (SB-IMPL::REPL-FUN NIL) > 7: ((LAMBDA ())) > 8: ((LAMBDA ())) > 9: (SB-IMPL::%WITH-REBOUND-IO-SYNTAX #) > 10: (SB-IMPL::TOPLEVEL-REPL NIL) > 11: (SB-IMPL::TOPLEVEL-INIT) > 12: ((LABELS SB-IMPL::RESTART-LISP)) > _______________________________________________ > elephant-devel site list > elephant-devel at common-lisp.net > http://common-lisp.net/mailman/listinfo/elephant-devel From fungsin.lui at gmail.com Thu Dec 14 19:46:09 2006 From: fungsin.lui at gmail.com (Lui Fungsin) Date: Thu, 14 Dec 2006 11:46:09 -0800 Subject: [elephant-devel] Fail to load elephant 0.60 on fedora core 4 + sbcl In-Reply-To: References: <3990b5930612131845y5d11e115k10d43681c0e97270@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <3990b5930612141146t45309bd4m99ba38e6b1155854@mail.gmail.com> Hi Ian! On 12/14/06, Ian Eslick wrote: > What was your error with 0.6.0 on fedora and SBCL 0.9.16? That > configuration should work. The error from SBCL is " Berkeley DB error: Invalid argument" after I run (do-backend-tests) The backtrace is in my original email. > The current CVS HEAD requires BDB 4.4 to compile correctly. HEAD is > not guaranteed to be stable and should only be used by developers. I just tried the CVS HEAD after I couldn't get 0.6.0 to work. My intend was to use the stable version. > Lispworks should work with 0.6.0, we just don't have people who test > it regularly and none of the developers use it. If you would like to > test the releases for Lispworks it should be easier to maintain a > working version. FYI, I took a quick look at the code where lispworks fails. There are quite a number of places where there is no conditional code for #+lispworks. I'm more than happy to help testing it with lispworks, but I cannot get a working configuration that I can successfully run elephant to begin with. I know that you use ACL mostly. Would it be a lot of trouble for you to install the lw personal edition and check if asdf can successfully load elephant? You can leave the runtime testing for end users like us to report any strange error during operations. I know that the developer resource is tight for this project. So asking you to do that for both the latest CVS and 0.6.0 might be impractical. I'm more than happy if you can make the CVS HEAD (or 0.6.0, whichever is easier for you) loadable from lispworks once you _have_ time. I really want to put elephant to good use :-) TIA, -- fungsin (FYI, memutil (0.6.0) has a bunch of errors when loaded from lispworks 5 linux:) **++++ Error between functions: Package SB-KERNEL not found. ; (TOP-LEVEL-FORM 5) ; *** 17 errors detected, no fasl file produced. Warning: COMPILE-FILE warned while performing # on #. Warning: COMPILE-FILE failed while performing # on #. Error: erred while invoking # on # 1 (continue) Retry performing # on #. 2 Continue, treating # on # as having been successful. 3 (abort) Return to level 0. 4 Return to top-level loop. 5 Return from multiprocessing. Type :b for backtrace, :c