From marc.battyani at fractalconcept.com Tue May 11 12:33:57 2004 From: marc.battyani at fractalconcept.com (Marc Battyani) Date: Tue, 11 May 2004 14:33:57 +0200 Subject: [cl-pdf-devel] Oslo workshop References: <0eb301c42b9b$2dca62a0$0a02a8c0@marcxp> <109901c42bc3$a5a86470$0a02a8c0@marcxp> Message-ID: <089201c43754$3c0f6940$0a02a8c0@marcxp> Arthur Lemmens wrote: > P.S. Are you, or anyone else on this list, planning to go to the > Lisp workshop in Oslo? Finally yes. I got my tickets to Oslo today :) Anyone else going there (http://www.cs.uni-bonn.de/~costanza/lisp-ecoop/) ? Marc From marc.battyani at fractalconcept.com Tue May 11 13:57:12 2004 From: marc.battyani at fractalconcept.com (Marc Battyani) Date: Tue, 11 May 2004 15:57:12 +0200 Subject: [cl-pdf-devel] cl-pdf, cl-tpesetting and mod_lisp repositories and tarballs Message-ID: <091c01c4375f$dce93bb0$0a02a8c0@marcxp> In my previous announce of the merging of the cl-pdf and cl-typesetting repositories, the URL I gave were wrong. Here are the correct ones: The full repository is here: http://www.fractalconcept.com:8000/public/open-source/ The cl-pdf part: http://www.fractalconcept.com:8000/public/open-source/cl-pdf/ The cl-typesetting part: http://www.fractalconcept.com:8000/public/open-source/cl-typesetting/ The mod_lisp part: http://www.fractalconcept.com:8000/public/open-source/mod_lisp/ It's a subversion 1.0 repository. There are also tarballs for cl-pdf and cl-typesetting: http://www.fractalconcept.com/download/cl-pdf-current.tgz http://www.fractalconcept.com/download/cl-typesetting-current.tgz BTW the (somewhat outdated) home pages for these projects are here: http://www.fractalconcept.com/asp/html/cl-pdf.html http://www.fractalconcept.com/asp/html/cl-typesetting.html http://www.fractalconcept.com/asp/html/mod_lisp.html Marc From alemmens at xs4all.nl Thu May 13 11:36:33 2004 From: alemmens at xs4all.nl (Arthur Lemmens) Date: Thu, 13 May 2004 13:36:33 +0200 Subject: [cl-pdf-devel] Re: Oslo workshop In-Reply-To: <089201c43754$3c0f6940$0a02a8c0@marcxp> References: <0eb301c42b9b$2dca62a0$0a02a8c0@marcxp> <109901c42bc3$a5a86470$0a02a8c0@marcxp> <089201c43754$3c0f6940$0a02a8c0@marcxp> Message-ID: Marc Battyani wrote: > Arthur Lemmens wrote: > >> P.S. Are you, or anyone else on this list, planning to go to the >> Lisp workshop in Oslo? > > Finally yes. I got my tickets to Oslo today :) > > Anyone else going there (http://www.cs.uni-bonn.de/~costanza/lisp-ecoop/) ? I'm going to order my tickets tomorrow. I'm looking forward to meeting you. Regards, Arthur Lemmens From brian.sorg at liberatinginsight.com Sun May 16 21:40:50 2004 From: brian.sorg at liberatinginsight.com (Brian Sorg) Date: Sun, 16 May 2004 16:40:50 -0500 Subject: [cl-pdf-devel] Cl typesetting and cl-pdf documentation creation Message-ID: <40A7DFE2.8050707@liberatinginsight.com> Hello everyone, I hope you are having an enjoyable weekend. I am fairly new to the cl-pdf and cl-typesetting software and have decided that as I learn how to use it, I would take the time to document what I discover so that others could benefit as well. On Marc Battyani's suggestion I am contacting the entire group to see if others have recommendations on the structure/format/method of creation that the documentation should take. Ultimately, I feel that the documentation should be published as a cl-typesetting and an html document. The challenge is finding an agreeable method so that anyone can contribute to the documentation easiliy. I look forward to hearing your ideas. Brian Sorg Liberating Insight LLC www.LiberatingInsight.com From alemmens at xs4all.nl Mon May 17 07:42:26 2004 From: alemmens at xs4all.nl (Arthur Lemmens) Date: Mon, 17 May 2004 09:42:26 +0200 Subject: [cl-pdf-devel] Cl typesetting and cl-pdf documentation creation In-Reply-To: <40A7DFE2.8050707@liberatinginsight.com> References: <40A7DFE2.8050707@liberatinginsight.com> Message-ID: Brian Sorg wrote: > I am fairly new to the cl-pdf and cl-typesetting software and have > decided that as I learn how to use it, I would take the time to > document what I discover so that others could benefit as well. Great. > On Marc Battyani's suggestion I am contacting the entire group to see > if others have recommendations on the structure/format/method of creation > that the documentation should take. My recommendation would be not to bother with "structure/format/method of creation" at all and just get started. Any documentation, even if it's just a plain old text file, is better than no documentation at all. Once you have written down enough documentation that meta-issues like structure and format become relevant, you'll be in a much better position to make an informed decision about such issues. Arthur Lemmens From marc.battyani at fractalconcept.com Mon May 17 07:56:48 2004 From: marc.battyani at fractalconcept.com (Marc Battyani) Date: Mon, 17 May 2004 09:56:48 +0200 Subject: [cl-typesetting-devel] Re: [cl-pdf-devel] Cl typesetting and cl-pdfdocumentation creation References: <40A7DFE2.8050707@liberatinginsight.com> Message-ID: <1f5001c43be4$84db18b0$0a02a8c0@marcxp> Arthur Lemmens wrote: > Brian Sorg wrote: > > > I am fairly new to the cl-pdf and cl-typesetting software and have > > decided that as I learn how to use it, I would take the time to > > document what I discover so that others could benefit as well. > > Great. > > > On Marc Battyani's suggestion I am contacting the entire group to see > > if others have recommendations on the structure/format/method of creation > > that the documentation should take. > > My recommendation would be not to bother with "structure/format/method > of creation" at all and just get started. Any documentation, even if it's > just a plain old text file, is better than no documentation at all. Once > you have written down enough documentation that meta-issues like structure > and format become relevant, you'll be in a much better position to make > an informed decision about such issues. I agree with that. A documentation in a bad format is better than no docs in a nice format ;-) Though of course it would be better to use a format that can be converted to/processed by cl-typesetting. So if anybody already have some kind of user friendly syntax that could be used please raise your hand! Marc From kw at w-m-p.com Mon May 17 16:58:21 2004 From: kw at w-m-p.com (Klaus Weidner) Date: Mon, 17 May 2004 11:58:21 -0500 Subject: [cl-typesetting-devel] Re: [cl-pdf-devel] Cl typesetting and cl-pdfdocumentation creation In-Reply-To: <1f5001c43be4$84db18b0$0a02a8c0@marcxp> References: <40A7DFE2.8050707@liberatinginsight.com> <1f5001c43be4$84db18b0$0a02a8c0@marcxp> Message-ID: <20040517165821.GA26376@w-m-p.com> On Mon, May 17, 2004 at 09:56:48AM +0200, Marc Battyani wrote: > I agree with that. A documentation in a bad format is better than no docs in > a nice format ;-) > Though of course it would be better to use a format that can be converted > to/processed by cl-typesetting. So if anybody already have some kind of user > friendly syntax that could be used please raise your hand! I think the XHTML to cl-typesetting converter I've been working on would be an option for this. The table support is still a bit rudimentary, but this could be extended fairly easily. However, if you want the documentation to directly demonstrate advanced formatting tricks and features, it would probably need to be done directly in low-level cl-typesetting code. Personally, I quite like the Perl Plain Old Documentation (POD) format, since that has very non-intrusive markup and is pleasant to edit. POD supports formatter specific sections, so with a bit of hacking you could do this: =head3 Another example Here's a more complex example: (... fancy Lisp code ...) for which the rendered output looks like this: =begin cl-typesetting (... fancy Lisp code ...) =end cl-typesetting Normal text follows I'll try to get the XHTML converter into releasable state this week (nothing major, just some dead code removal and maybe a few docstrings), and send it to the list. I'm also planning to write a native Lisp POD parser to remove the Perl dependency (also, pod2html is rather braindead, and I usually use the detour pod2latex -> latex2html). -Klaus From marc.battyani at fractalconcept.com Mon May 17 21:59:28 2004 From: marc.battyani at fractalconcept.com (Marc Battyani) Date: Mon, 17 May 2004 23:59:28 +0200 Subject: [cl-typesetting-devel] Re: [cl-pdf-devel] Cl typesetting and cl-pdfdocumentation creation References: <40A7DFE2.8050707@liberatinginsight.com> <1f5001c43be4$84db18b0$0a02a8c0@marcxp> <20040517165821.GA26376@w-m-p.com> Message-ID: <005d01c43c5a$3cb19250$0a02a8c0@marcxp> Klaus Weidner wrote: > On Mon, May 17, 2004 at 09:56:48AM +0200, Marc Battyani wrote: > > I agree with that. A documentation in a bad format is better than no docs in > > a nice format ;-) > > Though of course it would be better to use a format that can be converted > > to/processed by cl-typesetting. So if anybody already have some kind of user > > friendly syntax that could be used please raise your hand! > > I think the XHTML to cl-typesetting converter I've been working on would > be an option for this. The table support is still a bit rudimentary, but > this could be extended fairly easily. Tables you said? > However, if you want the documentation to directly demonstrate advanced > formatting tricks and features, it would probably need to be done > directly in low-level cl-typesetting code. > > Personally, I quite like the Perl Plain Old Documentation (POD) format, > since that has very non-intrusive markup and is pleasant to edit. POD > supports formatter specific sections, so with a bit of hacking you could > do this: > > =head3 Another example > > Here's a more complex example: > > (... fancy Lisp code ...) > > for which the rendered output looks like this: > > =begin cl-typesetting > > (... fancy Lisp code ...) > > =end cl-typesetting > > Normal text follows > > I'll try to get the XHTML converter into releasable state this week > (nothing major, just some dead code removal and maybe a few docstrings), > and send it to the list. I'm also planning to write a native Lisp POD > parser to remove the Perl dependency (also, pod2html is rather braindead, > and I usually use the detour pod2latex -> latex2html). A format allowing to mix text with the cl-typesetting raw-syntax is a good idea. Marc From kw at w-m-p.com Mon May 17 22:17:52 2004 From: kw at w-m-p.com (Klaus Weidner) Date: Mon, 17 May 2004 17:17:52 -0500 Subject: [cl-typesetting-devel] Re: [cl-pdf-devel] Cl typesetting and cl-pdfdocumentation creation In-Reply-To: <005d01c43c5a$3cb19250$0a02a8c0@marcxp> References: <40A7DFE2.8050707@liberatinginsight.com> <1f5001c43be4$84db18b0$0a02a8c0@marcxp> <20040517165821.GA26376@w-m-p.com> <005d01c43c5a$3cb19250$0a02a8c0@marcxp> Message-ID: <20040517221752.GB27985@w-m-p.com> On Mon, May 17, 2004 at 11:59:28PM +0200, Marc Battyani wrote: > Klaus Weidner wrote: > > > > I think the XHTML to cl-typesetting converter I've been working on would > > be an option for this. The table support is still a bit rudimentary, but > > this could be extended fairly easily. > > Tables you said? It uses the cl-typesetting table engine as a back end, and will need column widths to be statically defined. Also, it will of course inherit any breakage. My time situation isn't looking that good either, but I'll try to look at the problems Erik is having. This is unlikely to work in a useful way for printing web pages that use tables for multicolumn document layout or similar purposes, but should at least be useful for simple cases. > A format allowing to mix text with the cl-typesetting raw-syntax is a good > idea. One problem here is that POD does not directly support tables. I'm thinking about stealing (I mean re-using) code from the "table" Emacs mode, which allows interactive editing of ASCII-delimited tables, including resizing, cell joining, various justifications, content fill and other neat features. It is able to automatically parse such tables in text input, and print the internal representation in various formats. Here's an example of a table created in Emacs with just a few keystrokes: +-----+-----+-----+ |h1 | h2 | h3| +-----+-----+-----+ |a | b | c| | +-----+-----+ |x | y z | +-----+-----------+ Then, the POD output modes that don't understand tables would just output the verbatim ASCII table, and those that do could print a proper table instead. For more complex tables, the POD code could contain either HTML or cl-typesetting tables. -Klaus