From fb at frank-buss.de Sat Apr 2 08:52:13 2005 From: fb at frank-buss.de (Frank Buss) Date: Sat, 2 Apr 2005 10:52:13 +0200 Subject: [cells-gtk-devel] hello-c with callback support for CMUCL Message-ID: <20050402085212.7494C5C11E@frankbuss.de> Andras Simon has announced callback support for CMUCL for hello-c ( http://groups.google.de/groups?selm=vcdeke23egn.fsf%40csusza.math.bme.hu ), but looks like it is not in CVS. Would be nice, if someone can update the CVS repository. While doing this, perhaps all "rest"s should be substituted by "body", because then my LispWorks does the right thing when auto-indenting the body: bash-2.05$ cvs diff objects.lisp Index: objects.lisp =================================================================== RCS file: /project/cells/cvsroot/cell-cultures/hello-c/objects.lisp,v retrieving revision 1.1 diff -r1.1 objects.lisp 162c162 < (defmacro with-foreign-object ((var type) &rest body) --- > (defmacro with-foreign-object ((var type) &body body) 203c203 < (defmacro with-foreign-objects (bindings &rest body) --- > (defmacro with-foreign-objects (bindings &body body) 216c216 < (defmacro with-foreign-object ((var type) &rest body) --- > (defmacro with-foreign-object ((var type) &body body) Are there any plans to merge hello-c with the origninal UFFI? Would be better to have only one general Common Lisp FFI library, which supports all features for all Lisp implementations. -- Frank Bu?, fb at frank-buss.de http://www.frank-buss.de, http://www.it4-systems.de From ktilton at nyc.rr.com Sat Apr 2 15:01:41 2005 From: ktilton at nyc.rr.com (Kenny Tilton) Date: Sat, 02 Apr 2005 10:01:41 -0500 Subject: [cells-gtk-devel] hello-c with callback support for CMUCL In-Reply-To: <20050402085212.7494C5C11E@frankbuss.de> References: <20050402085212.7494C5C11E@frankbuss.de> Message-ID: <424EB3D5.1080302@nyc.rr.com> Frank Buss wrote: >Andras Simon has announced callback support for CMUCL for hello-c ( >http://groups.google.de/groups?selm=vcdeke23egn.fsf%40csusza.math.bme.hu ), >but looks like it is not in CVS. Would be nice, if someone can update the >CVS repository. > I guess I have to do that for now. If hello-c takes off (more below), I will make it a standalone c-l.net project. Andras, plz send a full tarball of your hello-c source (I use a win32 utility to diff/merge source) and I will get that into CVS. Thx, and thx for the effort on hello-c/cmucl. > >While doing this, perhaps all "rest"s should be substituted by "body", >because then my LispWorks does the right thing when auto-indenting the body: > >bash-2.05$ cvs diff objects.lisp >Index: objects.lisp >=================================================================== >RCS file: /project/cells/cvsroot/cell-cultures/hello-c/objects.lisp,v >retrieving revision 1.1 >diff -r1.1 objects.lisp >162c162 >< (defmacro with-foreign-object ((var type) &rest body) >--- > > >>(defmacro with-foreign-object ((var type) &body body) >> >> >203c203 >< (defmacro with-foreign-objects (bindings &rest body) >--- > > >>(defmacro with-foreign-objects (bindings &body body) >> >> >216c216 >< (defmacro with-foreign-object ((var type) &rest body) >--- > > >>(defmacro with-foreign-object ((var type) &body body) >> >> > >Are there any plans to merge hello-c with the origninal UFFI? Would be >better to have only one general Common Lisp FFI library, which supports all >features for all Lisp implementations. > Hello-c exists because the UFFI maintainer rejected it (for understandable reasons) and we (the UFFI maintainer and I) agreed a fork was the best solution. kenny -- Cells? Cello? Cells-Gtk?: http://www.common-lisp.net/project/cells/ Why Lisp? http://lisp.tech.coop/RtL%20Highlight%20Film "Doctor, I wrestled with reality for forty years, and I am happy to state that I finally won out over it." -- Elwood P. Dowd From peter.denno at nist.gov Sat Apr 2 16:24:07 2005 From: peter.denno at nist.gov (Peter Denno) Date: Sat, 2 Apr 2005 11:24:07 -0500 Subject: [cells-gtk-devel] hello-c with callback support for CMUCL In-Reply-To: <20050402085212.7494C5C11E@frankbuss.de> References: <20050402085212.7494C5C11E@frankbuss.de> Message-ID: <200504021124.07639.peter.denno@nist.gov> On Saturday 02 April 2005 03:52, Frank Buss wrote: > Andras Simon has announced callback support for CMUCL for hello-c ( > http://groups.google.de/groups?selm=vcdeke23egn.fsf%40csusza.math.bme.hu ), > but looks like it is not in CVS. Would be nice, if someone can update the > CVS repository. At the risk of sounding naive (heck, I am!) what do we mean by "callback support" here? > Are there any plans to merge hello-c with the origninal UFFI? Would be > better to have only one general Common Lisp FFI library, which supports all > features for all Lisp implementations. There are, at least, plans to get cells-gtk running on sbcl. I intend to look into that next month. In the process I expect to learn more about the manner in which hello-c extends UFFI. -- Best Regards, - Peter From fb at frank-buss.de Sat Apr 2 17:11:40 2005 From: fb at frank-buss.de (Frank Buss) Date: Sat, 2 Apr 2005 19:11:40 +0200 Subject: [cells-gtk-devel] hello-c with callback support for CMUCL In-Reply-To: <200504021124.07639.peter.denno@nist.gov> Message-ID: <20050402171139.A38C65C11E@frankbuss.de> > At the risk of sounding naive (heck, I am!) what do we mean > by "callback support" here? Some C-functions require a function pointer, which is called from the C-library. The callback mechanism allows to pass something like a pointer to a Lisp function, which when called from C, the Lisp function is called, see callbacks.lisp in hello-c and CL-Canvas ( http://www.frank-buss.de/lisp/canvas.html ) for an example. -- Frank Bu?, fb at frank-buss.de http://www.frank-buss.de, http://www.it4-systems.de From peter.denno at nist.gov Sat Apr 2 17:21:43 2005 From: peter.denno at nist.gov (Peter Denno) Date: Sat, 2 Apr 2005 12:21:43 -0500 Subject: [cells-gtk-devel] hello-c with callback support for CMUCL In-Reply-To: <20050402163722.64CEC5C11E@frankbuss.de> References: <20050402163722.64CEC5C11E@frankbuss.de> Message-ID: <200504021221.43513.peter.denno@nist.gov> On Saturday 02 April 2005 11:37, you wrote: > > At the risk of sounding naive (heck, I am!) what do we mean > > by "callback support" here? > > Some C-functions require a function pointer, which is called from the > C-library. The callback mechanism allows to pass something like a pointer > to a Lisp function, which when called from C, the Lisp function is called, > see callbacks.lisp in hello-c and CL-Canvas ( > http://www.frank-buss.de/lisp/canvas.html ) for an example. I see in defmacro ff-def-call : #+cmu `(progn (format t "WARNING: ff-def-call not impl (~s, ~s)~%" ,iname ,ename) , at body)) But I don't see where ff-def-call is used in cells-gtk. cells-gtk uses ff-defun-callable a bit, but that is already defined for #+cmu. Well, whatever. I'm sure Andras has an improvement in mind somewhere here. -- Best Regards, - Peter From asimon at math.bme.hu Wed Apr 6 17:02:54 2005 From: asimon at math.bme.hu (Andras Simon) Date: Wed, 6 Apr 2005 19:02:54 +0200 (CEST) Subject: [cells-gtk-devel] hello-c with callback support for CMUCL In-Reply-To: <20050402085212.7494C5C11E@frankbuss.de> References: <20050402085212.7494C5C11E@frankbuss.de> Message-ID: [Sorry for the late answer, I was away from my mail for a while.] On Sat, 2 Apr 2005, Frank Buss wrote: > Andras Simon has announced callback support for CMUCL for hello-c ( > http://groups.google.de/groups?selm=vcdeke23egn.fsf%40csusza.math.bme.hu ), > but looks like it is not in CVS. Would be nice, if someone can update the > CVS repository. No, I didn't. Quoting from the url above: | I think not, but hello-c (Kenny Tilton's UFFI fork) has callback | support for LW/ACL/CMUCL. It's used in cells-gtk. (Just in case someone thinks I improved hello-c in any way. I didn't.) Andras From asimon at math.bme.hu Wed Apr 6 17:08:04 2005 From: asimon at math.bme.hu (Andras Simon) Date: Wed, 6 Apr 2005 19:08:04 +0200 (CEST) Subject: [cells-gtk-devel] hello-c with callback support for CMUCL In-Reply-To: <424EB3D5.1080302@nyc.rr.com> References: <20050402085212.7494C5C11E@frankbuss.de> <424EB3D5.1080302@nyc.rr.com> Message-ID: On Sat, 2 Apr 2005, Kenny Tilton wrote: > Andras, plz send a full tarball of your hello-c source (I use a win32 utility > to diff/merge source) and I will get that into CVS. Thx, and thx for the > effort on hello-c/cmucl. What I have here is what I must have gotten from you; I don't remember touching it in any way. Still, if you need it, I'll send it to you. Andras From ktilton at nyc.rr.com Sun Apr 24 01:08:23 2005 From: ktilton at nyc.rr.com (Kenny Tilton) Date: Sat, 23 Apr 2005 21:08:23 -0400 Subject: [cells-gtk-devel] Re: [cells-devel] New Cells User Feedback (includes patch!) In-Reply-To: <200504231638.32981.peter.denno@nist.gov> References: <200504222033.49709.peter.denno@nist.gov> <4269BB1B.2050109@nyc.rr.com> <200504231638.32981.peter.denno@nist.gov> Message-ID: <426AF187.8010901@nyc.rr.com> Peter Denno wrote: >On Friday 22 April 2005 23:03, Kenny Tilton wrote: > > >>well, keep the pestering up (13 more days to go) and we can do something. >> >>Is hello-c (or whatever we want to call "UFFI extended to support >>callbacks into Lisp from C as well as CLisp") >> >> > >Hello-c is fine with me. > > > >>going to get enough >>attention to warrant its own c-l.net project? >> >> > >Got me. I haven't had time to think about it yet. Do you suppose there are >other projects that would use it? > Well, we would soon have both Cello and Cells-Gtk reaching into Cells to get hello-c, but they also go after Cells, so that is not too silly. And it is hard to imagine anyone doing a project without using Cells. But... When kevin rosenberg encouraged me to take my uffi extensions to a new project, he mentioned that he himself thought it was time for a new uffi. CLisp now has a great FFI, but UFFI does not support CLisp. Callbacks into Lisp from C are now universal enough to meet KR's requirements for UFFI inclusion, but I do not see him going that way. Unless KR has a chnage of heart, Lisp needs a new semi-universal C FFI. > > > >>Should utils-kt quietly be redundantly added to Cells and hello-c? Or is >>it fine as a module under Cells? I doubt it is worth making into its own >>project, as at least one other did. >> >> > >Maybe added to cells makes most sense. I'm not too crazy of the idea of a >separate module for utilities. We each have our own such collection and I'd >like to add a few of mine wherever they are useful. > >In my thinking, a module ought to support a bounded, well-defined purpose -- >either as a component of a system or as a set of operations on a single kind >of object. Utilities aren't like that. > And the good news is that they do not undergo evolutionary development over time, so they can just be replicated into a serious module and forgotten. hmmmm. well, if we are going to upset the applecart we may as well do it all at once: cells out from under cell-cultures to be a toplevel module in the cells project (and eventually the only one). hello-c into its own c-l.net project (if c-l.net approves) utils-kt replicated redundantly into... uh-oh. who exports it?! OK, let's have cells export those functions. cello back over to the cello project cell-cultures sleeps with the fish all those in favor? opposed? kt -- Cells? Cello? Cells-Gtk?: http://www.common-lisp.net/project/cells/ Why Lisp? http://lisp.tech.coop/RtL%20Highlight%20Film "Doctor, I wrestled with reality for forty years, and I am happy to state that I finally won out over it." -- Elwood P. Dowd From ktilton at nyc.rr.com Tue Apr 26 14:01:42 2005 From: ktilton at nyc.rr.com (Kenny Tilton) Date: Tue, 26 Apr 2005 10:01:42 -0400 Subject: [cells-gtk-devel] Re: [cello-devel] Re: [cells-devel] New Cells User Feedback (includes patch!) In-Reply-To: <17006.2890.573897.719340@conquest.OCF.Berkeley.EDU> References: <200504222033.49709.peter.denno@nist.gov> <4269BB1B.2050109@nyc.rr.com> <200504231638.32981.peter.denno@nist.gov> <426AF187.8010901@nyc.rr.com> <17006.2890.573897.719340@conquest.OCF.Berkeley.EDU> Message-ID: <426E49C6.3080509@nyc.rr.com> Thomas F. Burdick wrote: >Kenny Tilton writes: > > > And the good news is that they do not undergo evolutionary development > > over time, so they can just be replicated into a serious module and > > forgotten. > >Well, yes. But if everything's already using Cells, it can't hurt to >put it there. Unless you plan on releasing a major Cells-free >package, in which case I guess it would want its own copy. > Yeah, I am thinking cl-opengl, cl-openal, cl-ftgl, cl-magick and cl-anythingelseiamforgetting are all worthy standalone projects. > > > hmmmm. well, if we are going to upset the applecart we may as well do it > > all at once: > > > > cells out from under cell-cultures to be a toplevel module in the cells > > project (and eventually the only one). > > hello-c into its own c-l.net project (if c-l.net approves) > > utils-kt replicated redundantly into... uh-oh. who exports it?! > > OK, let's have cells export those functions. > > cello back over to the cello project > > cell-cultures sleeps with the fish > > > > all those in favor? opposed? > >I'd like to see utils-kt go in a cells/utils-kt subdirectory, but keep >its own package. > Agreed. > That way there's only one point in cvs to keep >up-to-date, and Cello and cells-gtk can use it, but Cells users don't >have to. > >Weekend before last, I was going to put the new asdf-installable Cells >release up on c-l.net, but I've managed to forget my gpg password, so >I can't sign it. If it doesn't come to me over the next little while, >I'll give up and make a new key. > This is the only feedback I have gotten. This is insufficient pestering. The Open Source Fairy is dead. I am working now on my proprietary stuff and want to concentrate on it long enough to build that kind of momentum that has me waking up at 6am and stumbling to the keyboard to pick up where I left off. The next window of opportunity is on or about May 10th. Pester now or forever hold your peace. :) kenny -- Cells? Cello? Cells-Gtk?: http://www.common-lisp.net/project/cells/ Why Lisp? http://lisp.tech.coop/RtL%20Highlight%20Film "Doctor, I wrestled with reality for forty years, and I am happy to state that I finally won out over it." -- Elwood P. Dowd From ktilton at nyc.rr.com Tue Apr 26 14:58:51 2005 From: ktilton at nyc.rr.com (Kenny Tilton) Date: Tue, 26 Apr 2005 10:58:51 -0400 Subject: [cells-gtk-devel] Re: [cello-devel] Re: [cells-devel] New Cells User Feedback (includes patch!) In-Reply-To: <17006.20944.85678.193705@conquest.OCF.Berkeley.EDU> References: <200504222033.49709.peter.denno@nist.gov> <4269BB1B.2050109@nyc.rr.com> <200504231638.32981.peter.denno@nist.gov> <426AF187.8010901@nyc.rr.com> <17006.2890.573897.719340@conquest.OCF.Berkeley.EDU> <426E49C6.3080509@nyc.rr.com> <17006.20944.85678.193705@conquest.OCF.Berkeley.EDU> Message-ID: <426E572B.4020704@nyc.rr.com> Thomas F. Burdick wrote: >Kenny Tilton writes: > > > This is the only feedback I have gotten. This is insufficient pestering. > > The Open Source Fairy is dead. I am working now on my proprietary > > stuff and want to concentrate on it long enough to build that kind of > > momentum that has me waking up at 6am and stumbling to the keyboard to > > pick up where I left off. > > > > The next window of opportunity is on or about May 10th. Pester now or > > forever hold your peace. > > > > :) > >Hmm, pestering is one thing, but how about threats? > Threats are good. > If the Open >Source Fairy has passed on, I can reorganize cvs and release a new >asdf-installable Cells, but I'd just orphan the other stuff in >cell-cultures that I don't use > OK, so: -- a utils-kt module (aka toplevel directory) gets created in the Cells project and populated with the stuff under cell-cultures -- the current Cells directory (module?) at the top level of the Cells project will be re-populated with the Cells directory under cell-cultures. cells.asd targets the new utils-kt module. -- all lists (cells, cello, cells-gtk) are notified that the cell-cultures subdirectories for utils-kt and cells are no longer maintained and will be deleted in a week Hmm. Perhaps while I am at it I should apply for projects for hello-c, cl-magick, cl-ftgl, cl-openal, and cl-opengl (if that is not already taken)? kt -- Cells? Cello? Cells-Gtk?: http://www.common-lisp.net/project/cells/ Why Lisp? http://lisp.tech.coop/RtL%20Highlight%20Film "Doctor, I wrestled with reality for forty years, and I am happy to state that I finally won out over it." -- Elwood P. Dowd From ktilton at nyc.rr.com Wed Apr 27 17:31:55 2005 From: ktilton at nyc.rr.com (Kenny Tilton) Date: Wed, 27 Apr 2005 13:31:55 -0400 Subject: [cells-gtk-devel] [Fwd: [cello-devel] Cells 2.0 release candidate] Message-ID: <426FCC8B.8070801@nyc.rr.com> -------- Original Message -------- Subject: [cello-devel] Cells 2.0 release candidate Date: Wed, 27 Apr 2005 04:40:28 -0700 From: Thomas F. Burdick Reply-To: Discussion of Cello, a portable CL GUI To: Cells Development , Cello Development , Cells-GTK I've put a release candidate for Cells up here: http://www.ocf.berkeley.edu/~tfb/cells_2.0.tar.gz Before I put it up on c-l.net, change the Cliki link, and make noise about it, I'd appreciate it if other Cells users would confirm that it works for them. Particularly users of Cello and Cells-Gtk, which I don't use. The differences from what's in CVS are mostly organizational: I moved utils-kt into the cells directory, rearranged the locations of a couple files, and removed the unused profile code. I replaced defconstant-once (in utils-kt) with a better define-constant that DoesWIM, and I think what Kenny means, too, based on the evidence of his code. I also changed the one use of defconstant to use define-constant, and now everything builds cleanly again on SBCL. I think this should all be uncontroversial. If this works for everybody, I'll paste together a README file from the various candidates in cell-cultures, and release this weekend. Kenny: this tarball looks to me like a good way of organizing cells in CVS, so if you agree, you can just check this in to have a freed-from-cell-cultures cells. Otherwise, you can figure it out, this works for a release anyhow. _______________________________________________ cello-devel site list cello-devel at common-lisp.net http://common-lisp.net/mailman/listinfo/cello-devel -- Cells? Cello? Cells-Gtk?: http://www.common-lisp.net/project/cells/ Why Lisp? http://lisp.tech.coop/RtL%20Highlight%20Film "Doctor, I wrestled with reality for forty years, and I am happy to state that I finally won out over it." -- Elwood P. Dowd From peter.denno at nist.gov Wed Apr 27 21:33:06 2005 From: peter.denno at nist.gov (Peter Denno) Date: Wed, 27 Apr 2005 17:33:06 -0400 Subject: [cells-gtk-devel] Re: [cells-devel] Cells 2.0 release candidate In-Reply-To: <17007.31276.295374.747613@conquest.OCF.Berkeley.EDU> References: <17007.31276.295374.747613@conquest.OCF.Berkeley.EDU> Message-ID: <200504271733.06914.peter.denno@nist.gov> On Wednesday 27 April 2005 07:40, Thomas F. Burdick wrote: > Before I put it up on c-l.net, change the Cliki link, and make noise > about it, I'd appreciate it if other Cells users would confirm that it > works for them. ?Particularly users of Cello and Cells-Gtk, which I > don't use. I'll try to give it a look WRT cells-gtk tomorrow. -- - Best regards, Peter From peter.denno at nist.gov Fri Apr 29 01:09:19 2005 From: peter.denno at nist.gov (Peter Denno) Date: Thu, 28 Apr 2005 21:09:19 -0400 Subject: [cells-gtk-devel] [Fwd: [cello-devel] Cells 2.0 release candidate] In-Reply-To: <426FCC8B.8070801@nyc.rr.com> References: <426FCC8B.8070801@nyc.rr.com> Message-ID: <200504282109.19122.peter.denno@nist.gov> On Wednesday 27 April 2005 13:31, Kenny Tilton wrote: > I've put a release candidate for Cells up here: > > ? http://www.ocf.berkeley.edu/~tfb/cells_2.0.tar.gz > > Before I put it up on c-l.net, change the Cliki link, and make noise > about it, I'd appreciate it if other Cells users would confirm that it > works for them. ?Particularly users of Cello and Cells-Gtk, which I > don't use. A quick test suggests that it appears to work fine with cells-gtk. Thanks for the work. I think it makes things cleaner. -- - Best regards, Peter From ktilton at nyc.rr.com Fri Apr 29 02:03:14 2005 From: ktilton at nyc.rr.com (Kenny Tilton) Date: Thu, 28 Apr 2005 22:03:14 -0400 Subject: [cells-gtk-devel] [Fwd: [cello-devel] Cells 2.0 release candidate] In-Reply-To: <200504282109.19122.peter.denno@nist.gov> References: <426FCC8B.8070801@nyc.rr.com> <200504282109.19122.peter.denno@nist.gov> Message-ID: <427195E2.4030903@nyc.rr.com> Peter Denno wrote: >On Wednesday 27 April 2005 13:31, Kenny Tilton wrote: > > >>I've put a release candidate for Cells up here: >> >> http://www.ocf.berkeley.edu/~tfb/cells_2.0.tar.gz >> >>Before I put it up on c-l.net, change the Cliki link, and make noise >>about it, I'd appreciate it if other Cells users would confirm that it >>works for them. Particularly users of Cello and Cells-Gtk, which I >>don't use. >> >> > >A quick test suggests that it appears to work fine with cells-gtk. > >Thanks for the work. I think it makes things cleaner. > > > (1) yes, I was remiss in not thanking (2) Thomas (not me ) for the effort. (Thomas does not subscribe to cells-gtk-devel, so I forwarded that notice to the list at his request.) kenny -- Cells? Cello? Cells-Gtk?: http://www.common-lisp.net/project/cells/ Why Lisp? http://lisp.tech.coop/RtL%20Highlight%20Film "Doctor, I wrestled with reality for forty years, and I am happy to state that I finally won out over it." -- Elwood P. Dowd