From kentilton at gmail.com  Thu May  4 19:57:18 2006
From: kentilton at gmail.com (Ken Tilton)
Date: Thu, 04 May 2006 15:57:18 -0400
Subject: [cells-devel] Oops, I panicked...
Message-ID: <445A5C9E.7000900@gmail.com>

I recently made a fundamental change to (setf md-slot-value) in the face 
of a bug in which a SETF got deferred and I could not think of a way to 
make the code work without taking out the integrity wrapper in (setf 
md-slot-value).

That was dumb. The way the slot was being used (setf?! Only in 
eventhandlers, please.) the slot should not have been a cell. (Specify 
":cell nil" in the slot definition.) What I decided to do was go the 
other way (more Cell-ish) and use a rule to get the slot initialized.

Now I get to go back and take out the dozen extra (with-integrity 
(:change)...) wrappers I had to add all over the ltktest-ci demo to get 
that working after the dumb "fix".

Anyway, if you grabbed Cells in the past few days you might want to wait 
till the smoke clears and grab it again.

And this time I will run the Cells regression test, which I did not 
think to do last time. <sigh>

kt
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From fgoenninger at prion.de  Thu May 11 12:08:49 2006
From: fgoenninger at prion.de (Frank Goenninger)
Date: Thu, 11 May 2006 14:08:49 +0200
Subject: [cells-devel] Multiple observers for a Cell slot ?
Message-ID: <25352B71-5B7D-4479-B87A-41A0C1C255A7@prion.de>

Hi Kenny, hi all:

While developing a library here for I/O to a microcontroller I see  
that I need some observers being defined to handle operations of the  
I/O device. Naturally I am coding these as part of the library which  
I plan to ship just as a compiled file.

The main application also needs to define observers on some Cell  
slots to update the GUI and other stuff. As an observer for the slot  
is already defined I am denied to define another one.

Now, am I doing something wrong and is is just me or maybe there  
should be some hook-like behavior and defobserver just adds another  
observer to a list of observers maintained by the Cell woodoo magic ?

Thanks for comments

Frank



From kentilton at gmail.com  Thu May 11 12:40:25 2006
From: kentilton at gmail.com (Ken Tilton)
Date: Thu, 11 May 2006 08:40:25 -0400
Subject: [cells-devel] Multiple observers for a Cell slot ?
In-Reply-To: <25352B71-5B7D-4479-B87A-41A0C1C255A7@prion.de>
References: <25352B71-5B7D-4479-B87A-41A0C1C255A7@prion.de>
Message-ID: <446330B9.1080006@gmail.com>

Frank Goenninger wrote:

> Hi Kenny, hi all:
>
> While developing a library here . I see  that I need some observers 
> being defined to handle operations of the  I/O device. Naturally I am 
> coding these as part of the library which  I plan to ship just as a 
> compiled file.
>
> The main application also needs to define observers on some Cell  
> slots to update the GUI and other stuff. As an observer for the slot  
> is already defined I am denied to define another one.

Yes and no.

(defgeneric slot-value-observe (slotname self new old old-boundp)
  #-(or cormanlisp clisp)  ;; Hey, I think clisp does PROGN now!
  (:method-combination progn))

So we have a PROGN method combo which means subclasses and superclasses 
can both define the same observer and both will run.
If you do not think your users will be subclassing, say, XXX, we still 
have a problem. Maybe then make your library class XXX-INTERNAL 
(unexported), subclass with XXX (exported/documented). Or you can 
require users to subclass, and enforce that  in initialize-instance.

Another trick is that possibly an :around method will work. PROGN does 
not let you also do :before/:after, but you an do :around. Not sure how 
that helps in this situation, because you might also want to let users 
at the :around method.

A final trick would be to have your XXX/SLOT-A observer call 
USER-SLOT-A-OBSERVER (standard method combo) before/after doing what you 
want to do yourself in the observer.

I guess this is a common problem in delivering CLOS applications. I 
wager most folks use the XXX-INTERNAL trick, or require users to 
subclass. If you think most users will be subclassing anyway, make it a 
requirement. That way it does not actually bother many people.

Side note: you do not need an extra XXX-INTERNAL if your implementation 
itself naturally provides unpublished superclasses. I used tk-object and 
widget and item for that in Celtk, because those are all abstract 
classes if you will.

kt

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From fgoenninger at prion.de  Sat May 13 12:39:44 2006
From: fgoenninger at prion.de (Frank Goenninger)
Date: Sat, 13 May 2006 14:39:44 +0200
Subject: [cells-devel] Celtk: Question on mk-entry
Message-ID: <B3E24569-A6A7-4E2F-8F10-545111F74664@prion.de>

Hi again,

When using the mk-entry widget I seem to not get any value back:

CL-USER> (et::run-entry-test)

"----------UTILSRESET----------------------------------"
*** Tk_AppInit has been called.
*** OBSERVER VAL: slot 'val' of ENTRY-TEST set to NIL
0> entry | "md-value output" | ENTRY | ""
tk> bind . <Escape> {destroy .}
0> no event handlers for | ENTRY | |write|
0> known key | CTK::|write| | SYMBOL
0> no event handlers for | ENTRY | |write|
0> known key | CTK::|write| | SYMBOL
*** OBSERVER VAL: slot 'val' of ENTRY-TEST set to
0> tcl-do-one-event-loop has left the building
NIL
CL-USER>

In order to get this output I turned on trc output in the  
defobserver .mdvalue ((self entry)) method. Yet the observer does not  
fire. When should/does the observer fire? On each change of the  
entry's entry field ?

I used the following code to test (also attached as a file):

(defpackage :et
   (:use :common-lisp))

(in-package :et)

(eval-when (:load-toplevel :compile-toplevel :execute)
   #+asdf (progn
    	   #-cells (progn
		    (asdf:operate 'asdf:load-op :cells)
		    (use-package :cells))
	   #-cl-opengl (progn
		    (asdf:operate 'asdf:load-op :cl-openg))
	   #-Celtk (progn
		    (asdf:operate 'asdf:load-op :Celtk)
		    (use-package :Celtk))
	 ))

(defmodel entry-test (window)
   ((val :accessor val
	  :initarg  :val
	  :initform (c-in nil)))
   (:default-initargs
        :title$ "entry test"
        :id :entry-test
        :kids
          (c? (the-kids
	       (mk-row (:packing (c?pack-self))
		   (mk-label :text "Enter value:")
		   (mk-entry :id :frgo-entry)
		   (mk-button-ex ("Do it !" (setf (val (fm^ :entry-test)) (md-value  
(fm^ :frgo-entry))))))))))

;;; DEBUG OBSERVERS

(defobserver val ((self entry-test))
   (format t "~&*** OBSERVER VAL: slot 'val' of ~S set to ~A~&"
	  self new-value))

;;; RUN/TEST FUNCTION

(defun run-entry-test ()
   (test-window 'entry-test))

-----

The code assumes the value of the entry widget (what the user  
entered) is stored in md-value of the entry widget. I tried monkey  
style copying from the demos to no avail so far.

Hmmpf! What am I doing wrong ? Thx for any hints.

Frank
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From ocorrain at yahoo.com  Sat May 13 20:24:20 2006
From: ocorrain at yahoo.com (=?iso-8859-1?Q?Tiarn=E1n_=D3_Corr=E1in?=)
Date: Sat, 13 May 2006 21:24:20 +0100
Subject: [cells-devel] Cells web?
Message-ID: <m2slndoeq3.fsf@Cascade.local>

Hi--

I'm trying to get my head around Cells by writing an application with
it, and I was wondering whether any work has been done in the area
already.

Has anyone used Cells as the basis for a Web app?  I'm thinking
specifically of something Ajax-y, with XMLHttp widget updates. Any
thoughts on this line of enquiry?

Tiarn?n


From kentilton at gmail.com  Sat May 13 21:10:51 2006
From: kentilton at gmail.com (Ken Tilton)
Date: Sat, 13 May 2006 17:10:51 -0400
Subject: [cells-devel] Cells web?
In-Reply-To: <m2slndoeq3.fsf@Cascade.local>
References: <m2slndoeq3.fsf@Cascade.local>
Message-ID: <a44bc6a10605131410l240a1281gd1f00a4216286e1b@mail.gmail.com>

On 5/13/06, Tiarn?n ? Corr?in <ocorrain at yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> Hi--
>
> I'm trying to get my head around Cells by writing an application with
> it, and I was wondering whether any work has been done in the area
> already.
>
> Has anyone used Cells as the basis for a Web app?


Not me, but by the end of the year I might well. I have not heard of anyone
doing so, but I often am surprised to learn others are using Cells
unbeknownst to me.


 I'm thinking
> specifically of something Ajax-y, with XMLHttp widget updates. Any
> thoughts on this line of enquiry?


Sorry, I am a Web app know-nothing. I myself have used Cells in four or five
seriously different ways and they always seem to make life easier.

kenny
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From fgoenninger at prion.de  Sat May 20 14:57:25 2006
From: fgoenninger at prion.de (Frank Goenninger)
Date: Sat, 20 May 2006 16:57:25 +0200
Subject: [cells-devel] Celtk: setting the content of a text widget ?
Message-ID: <197DD2DA-A91D-40CE-B195-3A2C80672763@prion.de>

Hi Kenny, hi all:

I do have a text widget which is created using mk-text-widget:

(mk-text-widget :id :receive-window
			     :state 'disabled
			     :md-value (c?n "...")
			     :height 10
			     :width 80
			     :borderwidth 2
			     :relief 'sunken
			     :pady 5))

No matter what I do (even setting :state to 'enabled) I do get  
anything printed in the text widget.

I actually execute a setf on md-value of the text widget:

(setf (md-value (fm-other :receive-window)) data)


Any idea? Thx!

Best wishes
    Frank




From fgoenninger at prion.de  Sat May 20 20:55:24 2006
From: fgoenninger at prion.de (Frank Goenninger)
Date: Sat, 20 May 2006 22:55:24 +0200
Subject: [cells-devel] Re: Celtk: setting the content of a text widget ?
	Fileevent working !
In-Reply-To: <A38AF4A2-1AE5-4765-B3D3-BF528AC8C49B@prion.de>
References: <197DD2DA-A91D-40CE-B195-3A2C80672763@prion.de>
	<446F42D1.10605@gmail.com>
	<A38AF4A2-1AE5-4765-B3D3-BF528AC8C49B@prion.de>
Message-ID: <2E3E7BAB-7AF3-45FE-8A34-B1435EF5DECC@prion.de>


Am 20.05.2006 um 20:16 schrieb Frank Goenninger:

> Am 20.05.2006 um 18:24 schrieb Ken Tilton:
>
>> Frank Goenninger wrote:
>>
>>> Hi Kenny, hi all:
>>>
>>> I do have a text widget which is created using mk-text-widget:
>>>
>>> (mk-text-widget :id :receive-window
>>>                  :state 'disabled
>>>                  :md-value (c?n "...")
>>>                  :height 10
>>>                  :width 80
>>>                  :borderwidth 2
>>>                  :relief 'sunken
>>>                  :pady 5))
>>>
>>> No matter what I do (even setting :state to 'enabled) I do get   
>>> anything printed in the text widget.
>>>
>>> I actually execute a setf on md-value of the text widget:
>>>
>>> (setf (md-value (fm-other :receive-window)) data)
>>>
>>>
>>> Any idea? Thx!
>>
>>
>> Hmmm, looks like I did not finish implementing text widgets.
>
> Yep, meanwhile I recognized that an observer is missing in file  
> entry.lisp.

Well, actually I had to do (in file entry.lisp):

;; Method CLEAR: clears a text widget to zero content

(defmethod clear ((self text-widget))
   (tk-format `(:variable ,self) "~a delete 1.0 end" (^path)))

;; This observer puts text to the widget if md-value has been set
;; Also takes care of edge cases like initialization time and setting
;; strings of length 0...

(defobserver .md-value ((self text-widget))
   (trc "md-value output" self new-value)
   (if (or (and (not old-value)
	       (string= new-value ""))
	  (not new-value))
     (tk-format `(:variable ,self) "~a delete 1.0 end" (^path))
     (if (> (length new-value) 0)
       (tk-format `(:variable ,self) "~a insert end ~a" (^path) new- 
value))))


With this and my fileevent stuff I can now say:


;; Model for a simple terminal output window.

(defmodel fileevent-test-window (window)
   ()
   (:default-initargs
       :kids (c? (the-kids
		   (mk-stack (:packing (c?pack-self))
		     (mk-label :text "Receive window"
			       :pady 10)
		     (mk-text-widget :id :receive-window
				     ;:state 'disabled
				     :md-value (c-in "")
				     :height 10
				     :width 80
				     :borderwidth 2
				     :relief 'sunken
				     :pady 5))
		   (mk-fileevent :id :fileevent-test
				 :read-fn 'read-from-pipe
			         :iostream (open "/Users/frgo/tmp/frgo-test"
					         :direction :input))))))

;; The method read-from-pipe reads data from a pipe generated by
;; mkfifo /Users/frgo/tmp/frgo-test and puts this as the data of a
;; text widget

(defmethod read-from-pipe ((self tk-fileevent) &optional  
(operation :read))
   (declare (ignorable operation))
   (let ((stream (^iostream)))
     (let ((data (read-line stream nil nil nil)))
       (trc "*** READ-FROM-PIPE: data = " data)
       (when data
         (setf (md-value (fm-other :receive-window)) data))))
)

;; Test function that fires up the test case

(defun test-fileevent ()
   (trc  
"----------------------------------------------------------------------- 
------")
   (test-window 'fileevent-test-window)
   (trc  
"----------------------------------------------------------------------- 
------")
)


Now, whenever I do a

$ echo "Heya this is a test" > /Users/frgo/tmp/frgo-test

the text gets displayed in the window. Of course there's other uses  
for this:
You also can open a socket and send application commands to the  
application. The read-from-pipe function would then be a little  
interpreter kicking of actions in the application...

For me I put the reading function to listen to a RS232C port that is  
connected to an AVR-based microcontroller. The controller send status  
information and voltage and current values from a power supply to be  
displayed as info by my application...

Fileevent to be put to Celtk CVS in a few days ... watch out.

Frank



From fgoenninger at prion.de  Sun May 21 17:04:08 2006
From: fgoenninger at prion.de (Frank Goenninger)
Date: Sun, 21 May 2006 19:04:08 +0200
Subject: [cells-devel] Celtk: Not really Celtk related,
	but .... ?! format does unwanted optimizations ...
Message-ID: <DF0E9948-8333-42D4-BE58-E4571426441B@prion.de>

Hi all:

I have that problem that I get some unwanted optimizations from format :

I want to do send a string to Tcl/Tk via function tk-format-now. My  
call to tk-format-now looks as follows:

   (tk-format-now "fileevent ~A readable [list readable ~A ~A]"
		 ch-name
		 ch-name
		 path))

This produces a Tcl error:

Tcl error: can not find channel named "#1=file22"
    [Condition of type SIMPLE-ERROR]

  When looking at the call stack then I see the followig:

  6: (CTK::TCL-EVAL-EX 25144328 "fileevent #1=file22 readable [list  
readable #1# .fileevent-test]")
       Locals:
         CTK::I = 25144328
         CTK::S = "fileevent #1=file22 readable [list readable  
#1# .fileevent-test]"
   7: (CTK:TK-FORMAT-NOW "fileevent ~A readable [list readable ~A  
~A]" #1="file22" #1# ".fileevent-test")
       Locals:
         CTK::FMT$ = "fileevent ~A readable [list readable ~A ~A]"
         NIL = "file22"
         NIL = "file22"
         NIL = ".fileevent-test"

Obviously Lisp optimizes the reference to the string object "file22"  
into a reference (Hmm - this is new to me. Is this real Lisp speak to  
describe the facts shown above ???).

Thx for any pointers!

Frank



From kentilton at gmail.com  Sun May 21 20:48:42 2006
From: kentilton at gmail.com (Ken Tilton)
Date: Sun, 21 May 2006 16:48:42 -0400
Subject: [cells-devel] Re: Celtk: setting the content of a text widget ?
	Fileevent working !
In-Reply-To: <2E3E7BAB-7AF3-45FE-8A34-B1435EF5DECC@prion.de>
References: <197DD2DA-A91D-40CE-B195-3A2C80672763@prion.de>
	<446F42D1.10605@gmail.com>
	<A38AF4A2-1AE5-4765-B3D3-BF528AC8C49B@prion.de>
	<2E3E7BAB-7AF3-45FE-8A34-B1435EF5DECC@prion.de>
Message-ID: <a44bc6a10605211348k2dc4f418m38086407dffebfe5@mail.gmail.com>

On 5/20/06, Frank Goenninger <fgoenninger at prion.de> wrote:
>
>
> Am 20.05.2006 um 20:16 schrieb Frank Goenninger:
>
> > Am 20.05.2006 um 18:24 schrieb Ken Tilton:
> >
> >> Frank Goenninger wrote:
> >>
> >>> Hi Kenny, hi all:
> >>>
> >>> I do have a text widget which is created using mk-text-widget:
> >>>
> >>> (mk-text-widget :id :receive-window
> >>>                  :state 'disabled
> >>>                  :md-value (c?n "...")
> >>>                  :height 10
> >>>                  :width 80
> >>>                  :borderwidth 2
> >>>                  :relief 'sunken
> >>>                  :pady 5))
> >>>
> >>> No matter what I do (even setting :state to 'enabled) I do get
> >>> anything printed in the text widget.
> >>>
> >>> I actually execute a setf on md-value of the text widget:
> >>>
> >>> (setf (md-value (fm-other :receive-window)) data)
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> Any idea? Thx!
> >>
> >>
> >> Hmmm, looks like I did not finish implementing text widgets.
> >
> > Yep, meanwhile I recognized that an observer is missing in file
> > entry.lisp.
>
> Well, actually I had to do (in file entry.lisp):
>
> ;; Method CLEAR: clears a text widget to zero content
>
> (defmethod clear ((self text-widget))
>    (tk-format `(:variable ,self) "~a delete 1.0 end" (^path)))
>
> ;; This observer puts text to the widget if md-value has been set
> ;; Also takes care of edge cases like initialization time and setting
> ;; strings of length 0...
>
> (defobserver .md-value ((self text-widget))
>    (trc "md-value output" self new-value)
>    (if (or (and (not old-value)
>                (string= new-value ""))
>           (not new-value))
>      (tk-format `(:variable ,self) "~a delete 1.0 end" (^path))
>      (if (> (length new-value) 0)
>        (tk-format `(:variable ,self) "~a insert end ~a" (^path) new-
> value))))


I took your stuff and whittled it down to:

(defobserver .md-value ((self text-widget))
  (trc "md-value output" self new-value)
  (with-integrity (:client `(:variable ,self))
    (tk-format-now "~a delete 1.0 end" (^path))
    (when (plusp (length new-value))
      (tk-format-now "~a insert end ~s" (^path) new-value))))

That way two (setf (md-value self) "Hi mom") calls do not produce "Hi momHi
mom".

I was not sure  the API entry point CLEAR was needed elsewhere. I can see
that it would be, though. Really, the more I look at the text widget  the
more I think it needs imperative processing by application code that has a
clear idea of what it wants to do with all the capabilities of the widget.

I also brought both commands within the same integrity bundle by skipping
the tk-format syntactic sugar and open-coding with-integrity. That just
saves one enqueue, no big deal. A bigger deal is that the sort done by
tk-user-queue-handler was not (until just now <g>) a stable sort, so the
delete could have been executed after the insert. Bringing both operations
into the single integrity bundle also fixes that.


>
> Now, whenever I do a
>
> $ echo "Heya this is a test" > /Users/frgo/tmp/frgo-test
>
> the text gets displayed in the window.


Isn't great when we get stuff like that working? Is there a universal law:
any time the effect produced by your own code surprises you, you are
probably onto something good. Programming never gets old.


> Fileevent to be put to Celtk CVS in a few days ... watch out.


Thx. I am switching all my code to LLGPL now, btw. I think we settled on
that for your stuff, yes?

kt
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From fgoenninger at prion.de  Sun May 21 21:30:36 2006
From: fgoenninger at prion.de (Frank Goenninger)
Date: Sun, 21 May 2006 23:30:36 +0200
Subject: [cells-devel] Re: Celtk: setting the content of a text widget ?
	Fileevent working !
In-Reply-To: <a44bc6a10605211348k2dc4f418m38086407dffebfe5@mail.gmail.com>
References: <197DD2DA-A91D-40CE-B195-3A2C80672763@prion.de>
	<446F42D1.10605@gmail.com>
	<A38AF4A2-1AE5-4765-B3D3-BF528AC8C49B@prion.de>
	<2E3E7BAB-7AF3-45FE-8A34-B1435EF5DECC@prion.de>
	<a44bc6a10605211348k2dc4f418m38086407dffebfe5@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <0B1ABC96-7076-44AF-A160-D5031925186A@prion.de>


Am 21.05.2006 um 22:48 schrieb Ken Tilton:

> I took your stuff and whittled it down to:
>
> (defobserver .md-value ((self text-widget))
>   (trc "md-value output" self new-value)
>   (with-integrity (:client `(:variable ,self))
>     (tk-format-now "~a delete 1.0 end" (^path))
>     (when (plusp (length new-value))
>       (tk-format-now "~a insert end ~s" (^path) new-value))))
>
> That way two (setf (md-value self) "Hi mom") calls do not produce  
> "Hi momHi mom".

Hm, yes, but ... ;-)

This changes behavior. Ok, I never really said anywhere anything  
about the implied behavior ... <g>

Now, whenever the model is set the whole text widget gets cleared and  
then the whole widget is set again. Which brings me to the "Hi mom"  
example above: I actually wanted the widget to behave that way. Now,  
seeing what you made of it,  I see the need to really broaden the API  
to the text widget to have APPEND and SET functions for the model.

> I was not sure  the API entry point CLEAR was needed elsewhere. I  
> can see that it would be, though. Really, the more I look at the  
> text widget  the more I think it needs imperative processing by  
> application code that has a clear idea of what it wants to do with  
> all the capabilities of the widget.

hehe, exactly. As I said above...

> I also brought both commands within the same integrity bundle by  
> skipping the tk-format syntactic sugar and open-coding with- 
> integrity. That just saves one enqueue, no big deal. A bigger deal  
> is that the sort done by tk-user-queue-handler was not (until just  
> now <g>) a stable sort, so the delete could have been executed  
> after the insert. Bringing both operations into the single  
> integrity bundle also fixes that.

Oookkaaayy....

> $ echo "Heya this is a test" > /Users/frgo/tmp/frgo-test
>
> the text gets displayed in the window.
>
> Isn't great when we get stuff like that working? Is there a  
> universal law: any time the effect produced by your own code  
> surprises you, you are probably onto something good. Programming  
> never gets old.

Right. Which is why we sit here after finishing our 2 hours of  
ballroom dancing on Sunday evening writing Cells code and emails like  
crazy. My wife is in bed already so I can pretend there's noone  
feeling bad about me sitting in the home office room here... <g>

>
>
> Fileevent to be put to Celtk CVS in a few days ... watch out.
>
> Thx. I am switching all my code to LLGPL now, btw. I think we  
> settled on that for your stuff, yes?

Well, yeah, LLPPL or MIT is just fine.

>
> kt

Frank




From stuglaser at gmail.com  Tue May 23 16:38:35 2006
From: stuglaser at gmail.com (Stu Glaser)
Date: Tue, 23 May 2006 11:38:35 -0500
Subject: [cells-devel] Celtk and SBCL (and linux)
Message-ID: <44733A8B.40306@gmail.com>

Hi all,

I'm trying to get Celtk working on SBCL.  I've attached a patch with 
several bugfixes.  Much still does not work, however, I have managed to 
display the "one-button-window" demo (though it crashes immediately 
after display.

Sometime later I will have questions.  Celtk still crashes often in 
finish-business, and I'm not yet familiar enough with cells to perform 
the fixes.

I made a change in item-pictorial that I'm not certain about.  In 
lotsa-widgets, tcl chokes when I use :bitmap in mk-bitmap:
debugger invoked on a SIMPLE-ERROR in thread
#<THREAD "initial thread" {A549481}>:
  Tcl error: bitmap "/home/stu/tmp/cells/Celtk/x1.xbm" not defined

I changed it to :file and added a -file entry in deftk bitmap.  That 
fixed the first error, but created a new one (which occurs later):
debugger invoked on a SIMPLE-ERROR in thread
#<THREAD "initial thread" {A549481}>:
  Tcl error: unknown option "-file"

I'm not sure how to proceed here.  Any help would be great.

Lastly, anonymous CVS access would be great.  It would certainly help 
for creating patches and for keeping my sources updated.

Regards,
-Stu Glaser
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From kentilton at gmail.com  Tue May 23 18:54:16 2006
From: kentilton at gmail.com (Ken Tilton)
Date: Tue, 23 May 2006 14:54:16 -0400
Subject: [cells-devel] Celtk and SBCL (and linux)
In-Reply-To: <44733A8B.40306@gmail.com>
References: <44733A8B.40306@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <a44bc6a10605231154s4f4736dby13099be1d1ad37d5@mail.gmail.com>

On 5/23/06, Stu Glaser <stuglaser at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Hi all,
>
> I'm trying to get Celtk working on SBCL.  I've attached a patch with
> several bugfixes.


Thx for the  patches. I will start working thru them and update CVS shortly.
speaking of which, not sure what you mean by not having anonymous CVS, but I
am a CVS dummy. I just use TortoiseCVS on win32 and I have write access
so... well, like I said, i do not know a thing about CVS, not sur ehow to
help.


 Much still does not work, however, I have managed to
> display the "one-button-window" demo (though it crashes immediately
> after display.


Without you doing anything? And it takes out your Lisp session as well, or
do you get a backtrace?

Sometime later I will have questions.  Celtk still crashes often in
> finish-business, and I'm not yet familiar enough with cells to perform
> the fixes.


Well, almost everything happens in "finish-business", so I would not worry
about Cells as much as OS differences and Lisp differences and installation
issues (as you have been).

I made a change in item-pictorial that I'm not certain about.  In
> lotsa-widgets, tcl chokes when I use :bitmap in mk-bitmap:
> debugger invoked on a SIMPLE-ERROR in thread
> #<THREAD "initial thread" {A549481}>:
>   Tcl error: bitmap "/home/stu/tmp/cells/Celtk/x1.xbm" not defined
>
> I changed it to :file and added a -file entry in deftk bitmap.


Looking here: http://tmml.sourceforge.net/doc/tk/canvas.html, I do not see a
-file configuration option on the Bitmap Canvas item (you have to scroll
waaaay down under the Canvas widget to find the items. Which explains....



 That
> fixed the first error, but created a new one (which occurs later):
> debugger invoked on a SIMPLE-ERROR in thread
> #<THREAD "initial thread" {A549481}>:
>   Tcl error: unknown option "-file"
>
> I'm not sure how to proceed here.  Any help would be great.



I think what happened is that you just made Tcl break sooner. ie, before it
saw the (correct, I think) -bitmap option and then died when it decided the
file was not "defined" (strange, it should say found, right? I will
investigate over trying to recreate your error.

So let's go back to that weird <file location> "not defined". I have a hunch
but prefer to investigate first. meanwhile, a couple of things for you to
try:

1. naturally, make sure the file is there. :) I am not sure I even had that
.xbm file in the distro until recently.

2. find the function tk-format-now and monkey with the debug stuff so that
any message to Tk with the word "bitmap" in it gets printed, and see if you
can catch the output and post that. When really confused I rig that so it
prints everything, but on lotsa-widgets that would be a lot. if you are
brave you can try moving Just Enough Code from lotsa-widgets to one-button.
But it is probably easiest to use my yes/no filters in tk-format-now to get
just the right amount of messaging.

kenny


Lastly, anonymous CVS access would be great.  It would certainly help
> for creating patches and for keeping my sources updated.
>
> Regards,
> -Stu Glaser
>
>
> diff -c old-Celtk/composites.lisp Celtk/composites.lisp
> *** old-Celtk/composites.lisp   Mon May 15 00:15:37 2006
> --- Celtk/composites.lisp       Tue May 23 04:00:59 2006
> ***************
> *** 85,91 ****
>       #+wishful (ewish :initarg :ewish :accessor ewish :initform nil :cell
> nil) ;; vestigial?
>       (title$ :initarg :title$ :accessor title$
>         :initform (c? (string-capitalize (class-name (class-of self)))))
> !     (dictionary :initarg :dictionary :initform (make-hash-table :test
> 'string-equal) :accessor dictionary)
>       (tkwins :initform (make-hash-table) :reader tkwins)
>       (xwins :initform (make-hash-table) :reader xwins)
>       (callbacks :initarg :callbacks :accessor callbacks
> --- 85,91 ----
>       #+wishful (ewish :initarg :ewish :accessor ewish :initform nil :cell
> nil) ;; vestigial?
>       (title$ :initarg :title$ :accessor title$
>         :initform (c? (string-capitalize (class-name (class-of self)))))
> !     (dictionary :initarg :dictionary :initform (make-hash-table :test
> 'equalp) :accessor dictionary)
>       (tkwins :initform (make-hash-table) :reader tkwins)
>       (xwins :initform (make-hash-table) :reader xwins)
>       (callbacks :initarg :callbacks :accessor callbacks
> diff -c old-Celtk/item-pictorial.lisp Celtk/item-pictorial.lisp
> *** old-Celtk/item-pictorial.lisp       Tue May  2 01:57:22 2006
> --- Celtk/item-pictorial.lisp   Tue May 23 04:00:59 2006
> ***************
> *** 31,36 ****
> --- 31,37 ----
>       -activebackground
>       -disabledbackground
>       -bitmap
> +     -file
>       -activebitmap
>       -disabledbitmap
>       -foreground
> diff -c old-Celtk/run.lisp Celtk/run.lisp
> *** old-Celtk/run.lisp  Tue May 16 19:40:55 2006
> --- Celtk/run.lisp      Tue May 23 04:00:59 2006
> ***************
> *** 39,45 ****
>     (tk-app-init *tki*)
>     (tk-togl-init *tki*)
>     (tk-format-now "proc TraceOP {n1 n2 op} {event generate $n1 <<trace>>
> -data $op}")
> !   (tcl-create-command *tki* "do-on-command" (get-callback
> 'do-on-command)  42 0)
>
>     (with-integrity ()
>       (setf *tkw* (make-instance root-class))
> --- 40,46 ----
>     (tk-app-init *tki*)
>     (tk-togl-init *tki*)
>     (tk-format-now "proc TraceOP {n1 n2 op} {event generate $n1 <<trace>>
> -data $op}")
> !   (tcl-create-command *tki* "do-on-command" (get-callback
> 'do-on-command)  42 (null-pointer))
>
>     (with-integrity ()
>       (setf *tkw* (make-instance root-class))
> ***************
> *** 85,88 ****
>       (force-output *tkw*)
>       (setf *tkw* nil))
>
> !   (run-window root-class))
> \ No newline at end of file
> --- 86,89 ----
>       (force-output *tkw*)
>       (setf *tkw* nil))
>
> !   (run-window root-class))
> diff -c old-Celtk/tk-events.lisp Celtk/tk-events.lisp
> *** old-Celtk/tk-events.lisp    Tue May 16 19:40:55 2006
> --- Celtk/tk-events.lisp        Tue May 23 04:00:59 2006
> ***************
> *** 35,41 ****
>     (tkwin :pointer)
>     (mask :int)
>     (proc :pointer)
> !   (client-data :int))
>
>   (defcenum tk-event-type ;; do not try to generate masks from these!
>       "Ok for interpreting type field in event, but not for (expt 2 etype)
> to get mask"
> --- 35,41 ----
>     (tkwin :pointer)
>     (mask :int)
>     (proc :pointer)
> !   (client-data :pointer))
>
>   (defcenum tk-event-type ;; do not try to generate masks from these!
>       "Ok for interpreting type field in event, but not for (expt 2 etype)
> to get mask"
> diff -c old-Celtk/tk-interp.lisp Celtk/tk-interp.lisp
> *** old-Celtk/tk-interp.lisp    Tue May 16 16:17:15 2006
> --- Celtk/tk-interp.lisp        Tue May 23 04:00:59 2006
> ***************
> *** 36,50 ****
>
>   (define-foreign-library Tcl
>       (:darwin (:framework "Tcl"))
> !   (:windows (:or "/tcl/bin/Tcl85.dll")))
>   (define-foreign-library Tk
>       (:darwin (:framework "Tk"))
> !   (:windows (:or "/tcl/bin/tk85.dll")))
>
>   ;; Togl
>   (define-foreign-library Togl
>       (:darwin (:or "/opt/tcltk/togl/lib/Togl1.7/libtogl1.7.dylib"))
> !   (:windows (:or "/tcl/lib/togl/togl17.dll")))
>
>   (defctype tcl-retcode :int)
>
> --- 36,57 ----
>
>   (define-foreign-library Tcl
>       (:darwin (:framework "Tcl"))
> !   (:windows (:or "/tcl/bin/Tcl85.dll"))
> !   (:unix "libtcl.so")
> !   (t (:default "libtcl")))
>   (define-foreign-library Tk
>       (:darwin (:framework "Tk"))
> !   (:windows (:or "/tcl/bin/tk85.dll"))
> !   (:unix "libtk.so")
> !   (t (:default "libtk")))
>
>   ;; Togl
>   (define-foreign-library Togl
>       (:darwin (:or "/opt/tcltk/togl/lib/Togl1.7/libtogl1.7.dylib"))
> !   (:windows (:or "/tcl/lib/togl/togl17.dll"))
> !   (:unix "/usr/lib/Togl1.7/libTogl1.7.so"))
> !
> ! (use-foreign-library Togl)
>
>   (defctype tcl-retcode :int)
>
> ***************
> *** 233,239 ****
>
>   (defun argv0 ()
>     #+allegro (sys:command-line-argument 0)
> !   #+lispworks (nth 0 (io::io-get-command-line-arguments)))
>
>   (defun tk-interp-init-ensure ()
>     (unless *initialized*
> --- 240,247 ----
>
>   (defun argv0 ()
>     #+allegro (sys:command-line-argument 0)
> !   #+lispworks (nth 0 (io::io-get-command-line-arguments))
> !   #+sbcl (nth 0 sb-ext:*posix-argv*))
>
>   (defun tk-interp-init-ensure ()
>     (unless *initialized*
> diff -c old-Celtk/widget.lisp Celtk/widget.lisp
> *** old-Celtk/widget.lisp       Tue May 16 19:40:55 2006
> --- Celtk/widget.lisp   Tue May 23 04:00:59 2006
> ***************
> *** 78,84 ****
>
>   (defun tk-create-event-handler-ex (widget callback-name &rest masks)
>     (let ((self-tkwin (widget-to-tkwin widget)))
> !       (assert (plusp self-tkwin))
>         (trc nil "setting up widget virtual-event handler" widget :tkwin
> self-tkwin)
>         (tk-create-event-handler self-tkwin
>           (apply 'foreign-masks-combine 'tk-event-mask masks)
> --- 78,84 ----
>
>   (defun tk-create-event-handler-ex (widget callback-name &rest masks)
>     (let ((self-tkwin (widget-to-tkwin widget)))
> !       (assert (not (null-pointer-p self-tkwin)))
>         (trc nil "setting up widget virtual-event handler" widget :tkwin
> self-tkwin)
>         (tk-create-event-handler self-tkwin
>           (apply 'foreign-masks-combine 'tk-event-mask masks)
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> cells-devel site list
> cells-devel at common-lisp.net
> http://common-lisp.net/mailman/listinfo/cells-devel
>
>
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From kentilton at gmail.com  Tue May 23 19:06:39 2006
From: kentilton at gmail.com (Ken Tilton)
Date: Tue, 23 May 2006 15:06:39 -0400
Subject: [cells-devel] Celtk and SBCL (and linux)
In-Reply-To: <a44bc6a10605231154s4f4736dby13099be1d1ad37d5@mail.gmail.com>
References: <44733A8B.40306@gmail.com>
	<a44bc6a10605231154s4f4736dby13099be1d1ad37d5@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <a44bc6a10605231206v38408fd6r2aaba3d87b0df5ba@mail.gmail.com>

> 2. find the function tk-format-now and monkey with the debug stuff so that
> any message to Tk with the word "bitmap" in it gets printed, and see if you
> can catch the output and post that.
>

I get:

tk> .f332.cv334 create bitmap  140 140  -bitmap "@\\0dev\\Celtk\\x1.xbm"

That works. Then changing the name to something it will not find, I get:

     Error: Tcl error: error reading bitmap file "\0dev\Celtk\xoxox1.xbm"

Here is my theory: the string does not look like a filename path to Tcl on
Linux, so it looks for a /named/ bitmap. ie, yeah, tcl has a mechanism
(perhaps only in the C api, I do not know) to associate an arbitrary name
with a bitmap being loaded from a file. Then all your code just uses that
name, and you only have to change the filename in one  place to get everyone
to use a different bitmap.

Anyway, that would explain the "not defined" complaint. It also makes sense
since you are (I might have warned you earlier) the first Linux user.

The bad news is that I am also ignorant of Linux. :)

hth, kenny
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From kentilton at gmail.com  Tue May 23 20:05:20 2006
From: kentilton at gmail.com (Ken Tilton)
Date: Tue, 23 May 2006 16:05:20 -0400
Subject: [cells-devel] Celtk and SBCL (and linux)
In-Reply-To: <FFF80376-E433-4532-A54D-94DFD5EABDD2@mac.com>
References: <44733A8B.40306@gmail.com>
	<a44bc6a10605231154s4f4736dby13099be1d1ad37d5@mail.gmail.com>
	<a44bc6a10605231206v38408fd6r2aaba3d87b0df5ba@mail.gmail.com>
	<FFF80376-E433-4532-A54D-94DFD5EABDD2@mac.com>
Message-ID: <a44bc6a10605231305u7efaca51i47d4c97f34c40d28@mail.gmail.com>

On 5/23/06, Frank Goenninger <frgo at mac.com> wrote:
>
> Hi all:
>
> Am 23.05.2006 um 21:06 schrieb Ken Tilton:
>
> >
> > 2. find the function tk-format-now and monkey with the debug stuff
> > so that any message to Tk with the word "bitmap" in it gets
> > printed, and see if you can catch the output and post that.
> >
> > I get:
> >
> > tk> .f332.cv334 create bitmap  140 140  -bitmap "@\\0dev\\Celtk\
> > \x1.xbm"
> >
> > That works. Then changing the name to something it will not find, I
> > get:
> >
> >      Error: Tcl error: error reading bitmap file "\0dev\Celtk
> > \xoxox1.xbm"
>
> This has to be adapted to Linux-style path names:
>
> "/the/path/to/the/file/1.xbm"


Thanks. Pardon my OS-centrism. Like this?:

   (mk-bitmap :coords (list 140 140)
                :bitmap (conc$ "@" (namestring (make-pathname
                                                :directory '(:absolute
"0dev" "Celtk")
                                                :name "x1"
                                                :type "xbm"))))

kenny
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From fgoenninger at prion.de  Tue May 23 20:21:21 2006
From: fgoenninger at prion.de (Frank Goenninger)
Date: Tue, 23 May 2006 22:21:21 +0200
Subject: [cells-devel] Celtk and SBCL (and linux)
In-Reply-To: <a44bc6a10605231305u7efaca51i47d4c97f34c40d28@mail.gmail.com>
References: <44733A8B.40306@gmail.com>
	<a44bc6a10605231154s4f4736dby13099be1d1ad37d5@mail.gmail.com>
	<a44bc6a10605231206v38408fd6r2aaba3d87b0df5ba@mail.gmail.com>
	<FFF80376-E433-4532-A54D-94DFD5EABDD2@mac.com>
	<a44bc6a10605231305u7efaca51i47d4c97f34c40d28@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <F80AAA44-1F5B-4816-8E7D-F930CB367512@prion.de>


Am 23.05.2006 um 22:05 schrieb Ken Tilton:

>
>
> On 5/23/06, Frank Goenninger <frgo at mac.com> wrote: Hi all:
>
> Am 23.05.2006 um 21:06 schrieb Ken Tilton:
>
> >
> > 2. find the function tk-format-now and monkey with the debug stuff
> > so that any message to Tk with the word "bitmap" in it gets
> > printed, and see if you can catch the output and post that.
> >
> > I get:
> >
> > tk> .f332.cv334 create bitmap  140 140  -bitmap "@\\0dev\\Celtk\
> > \x1.xbm"
> >
> > That works. Then changing the name to something it will not find, I
> > get:
> >
> >      Error: Tcl error: error reading bitmap file "\0dev\Celtk
> > \xoxox1.xbm"
>
> This has to be adapted to Linux-style path names:
>
> "/the/path/to/the/file/1.xbm"
>
> Thanks. Pardon my OS-centrism.

Hehe. ;-)

> Like this?:
>
>    (mk-bitmap :coords (list 140 140)
>                 :bitmap (conc$ "@" (namestring (make-pathname
>                                                 :directory  
> '(:absolute "0dev" "Celtk")
>                                                 :name "x1"
>                                                 :type "xbm"))))

Yep. That's one way. Works also with

(mk-bitmap :coords (list 140 140)
                      :bitmap ("@/0dev/Celtk/name/x1.xbm")

If that path exists, of course ;-)

>
> kenny

Frank



From tfb at ocf.berkeley.edu  Tue May 23 20:43:55 2006
From: tfb at ocf.berkeley.edu (Thomas F. Burdick)
Date: Tue, 23 May 2006 22:43:55 +0200
Subject: [cells-devel] Celtk and SBCL (and linux)
In-Reply-To: <44733A8B.40306@gmail.com>
References: <44733A8B.40306@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <b61efa90605231343y708456a2hce15b268d5b6cdbf@mail.gmail.com>

On 5/23/06, Stu Glaser <stuglaser at gmail.com> wrote:
> Hi all,
>
> I'm trying to get Celtk working on SBCL.  I've attached a patch with
> several bugfixes.

I'm not a Celtk user, but I am the Cells-on-SBCL guy, so I'm
definately paying attention here.  Could you please send patches in
unified diff format?  It's about 1000x easier to read (you can get
diff to produce it with the -u option).

> Much still does not work, however, I have managed to
> display the "one-button-window" demo (though it crashes immediately
> after display.
>
> Sometime later I will have questions.  Celtk still crashes often in
> finish-business, and I'm not yet familiar enough with cells to perform
> the fixes.

If Kenny or Frank doesn't get to this before I do, I can look into it
in a couple weeks.  If you guys haven't sorted it out with Celtk
issues, it might be Cells related...


> Lastly, anonymous CVS access would be great.  It would certainly help
> for creating patches and for keeping my sources updated.

All of Cells uses the common-lisp.net infrastructure, and they turned
off anonymous pserver access due to the constant security nightmare it
implies.  Sorry.  I'd be happy with a move to svn, which would also
mean reliable anonymous access, but I'm not sure if there's a
reasonable client for Windows.  There's a good OS X one, though, so I
wouldn't be surprised if there was.


From kentilton at gmail.com  Tue May 23 20:57:05 2006
From: kentilton at gmail.com (Ken Tilton)
Date: Tue, 23 May 2006 16:57:05 -0400
Subject: [cells-devel] Celtk and SBCL (and linux)
In-Reply-To: <b61efa90605231343y708456a2hce15b268d5b6cdbf@mail.gmail.com>
References: <44733A8B.40306@gmail.com>
	<b61efa90605231343y708456a2hce15b268d5b6cdbf@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <a44bc6a10605231357u6400b6d2if9132e6b046911f1@mail.gmail.com>

On 5/23/06, Thomas F. Burdick <tfb at ocf.berkeley.edu> wrote:
>
> On 5/23/06, Stu Glaser <stuglaser at gmail.com> wrote:
> > Hi all,
> >
> > I'm trying to get Celtk working on SBCL.  I've attached a patch with
> > several bugfixes.
>
> I'm not a Celtk user, but I am the Cells-on-SBCL guy, so I'm
> definately paying attention here.  Could you please send patches in
> unified diff format?  It's about 1000x easier to read (you can get
> diff to produce it with the -u option).


I look forward to that, but I had no problem working from the diff. I take
your word for it, tho.

> Much still does not work, however, I have managed to
> > display the "one-button-window" demo (though it crashes immediately
> > after display.
> >
> > Sometime later I will have questions.  Celtk still crashes often in
> > finish-business, and I'm not yet familiar enough with cells to perform
> > the fixes.
>
> If Kenny or Frank doesn't get to this before I do, I can look into it
> in a couple weeks.  If you guys haven't sorted it out with Celtk
> issues, it might be Cells related...


OK, we'll keep an open mind. But as I said, /everything/ happens in
finish-business it seems.  Especially with Tk, which is pretty fussy about
the order in which things happen. (And I just got bit by a timer going off
as a window was being shut down. Oops. new :client task type on the way (up
to twenty, I think))


> Lastly, anonymous CVS access would be great.  It would certainly help
> > for creating patches and for keeping my sources updated.
>
> All of Cells uses the common-lisp.net infrastructure, and they turned
> off anonymous pserver access due to the constant security nightmare it
> implies.  Sorry.  I'd be happy with a move to svn, which would also
> mean reliable anonymous access, but I'm not sure if there's a
> reasonable client for Windows.  There's a good OS X one, though, so I
> wouldn't be surprised if there was.


I have TortoiseSVN now as well as TortoiseCVS. I hear svn is better. I am
down with a switch.

kenny
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From stuglaser at gmail.com  Wed May 24 06:32:02 2006
From: stuglaser at gmail.com (Stu Glaser)
Date: Wed, 24 May 2006 01:32:02 -0500
Subject: [cells-devel] Celtk and SBCL (and linux)
In-Reply-To: <a44bc6a10605231357u6400b6d2if9132e6b046911f1@mail.gmail.com>
References: <44733A8B.40306@gmail.com>	
	<b61efa90605231343y708456a2hce15b268d5b6cdbf@mail.gmail.com>
	<a44bc6a10605231357u6400b6d2if9132e6b046911f1@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4473FDE2.40300@gmail.com>

I'm happy to report that the one-button-window test appears to run 
correctly.  I've attached the appropriate patch.

(The patch works from the current version in CVS, so it includes the 
previous changes)

Additionally, menu-button-test, spinbox-test,

lotsa-widgets almost works.  When I selected File|Quit, it quit my lisp 
process too.  Other than that, it appears okay.

I can't find gears, and ltktest-cells-inside doesn't work.

One major change: SBCL has a special type for pointers.  This type does 
not work in hashtables, so the integer address must be stored there.

Also, I managed to get anonymous CVS working.

Enjoy,
-Stu Glaser
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From nikodemus at random-state.net  Wed May 24 07:31:53 2006
From: nikodemus at random-state.net (Nikodemus Siivola)
Date: Wed, 24 May 2006 10:31:53 +0300
Subject: [cells-devel] Celtk and SBCL (and linux)
In-Reply-To: <b61efa90605231343y708456a2hce15b268d5b6cdbf@mail.gmail.com>
	(Thomas F. Burdick's message of "Tue, 23 May 2006 22:43:55 +0200")
References: <44733A8B.40306@gmail.com>
	<b61efa90605231343y708456a2hce15b268d5b6cdbf@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <87ejyjyj2u.fsf@logxor.random-state.net>

"Thomas F. Burdick" <tfb at ocf.berkeley.edu> writes:

> All of Cells uses the common-lisp.net infrastructure, and they turned
> off anonymous pserver access due to the constant security nightmare it
> implies.  Sorry.  I'd be happy with a move to svn, which would also

The anoncvs is back online (for good and for bad), and as a quick test
cells/cells checks out fine -- if something isn't available there,
a quick note to admin at common-lisp.net should fix it.

But SVN is, nice, yes. 

/relurk

  -- Nikodemus              Schemer: "Buddha is small, clean, and serious."
                   Lispnik: "Buddha is big, has hairy armpits, and laughs."


From kentilton at gmail.com  Wed May 24 14:43:55 2006
From: kentilton at gmail.com (Ken Tilton)
Date: Wed, 24 May 2006 10:43:55 -0400
Subject: [cells-devel] Celtk and SBCL (and linux)
In-Reply-To: <4473FDE2.40300@gmail.com>
References: <44733A8B.40306@gmail.com>
	<b61efa90605231343y708456a2hce15b268d5b6cdbf@mail.gmail.com>
	<a44bc6a10605231357u6400b6d2if9132e6b046911f1@mail.gmail.com>
	<4473FDE2.40300@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <a44bc6a10605240743k58fdbd3bofc6715b3af232146@mail.gmail.com>

On 5/24/06, Stu Glaser <stuglaser at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> I'm happy to report that the one-button-window test appears to run
> correctly.  I've attached the appropriate patch.
>
> (The patch works from the current version in CVS, so it includes the
> previous changes)
>
> Additionally, menu-button-test, spinbox-test,
>
> lotsa-widgets almost works.  When I selected File|Quit, it quit my lisp
> process too.  Other than that, it appears okay.


It /is/  okay.  :) Just yesterday I was thinking, "I really should change
that before some poor user hits it." <g> That buttons invoke a Tcl "exit",
which is fine when talking to Tcl over a pipe. If it makes you feel better,
I killed myself that way yesterday when testing. :)


I can't find gears,


Gears got moved into its own module under Cells. I did not want to commit
Celtk to any one binding set to OpenGL, though Celtk does load the Togl
widget. Reason? I do not like the new cl-opengl bindings on c-l.net, but I
assume it will become the standard, so I will not force /my/ OpenGl bindings
on anyone. They happen also to be called cl-opengl.

and ltktest-cells-inside doesn't work.


I am fighting it out with that over here as well. Not sure if we are talking
about the same fight, of course. Oh, and I have not committed to CVS in
quite a few days and things are really getting tossed around, so... let's
talk again after the next CVS commit. I am sure we will need a second cycle
of patches and then things should stabilize.


One major change: SBCL has a special type for pointers.  This type does
> not work in hashtables, so the integer address must be stored there.


OK, I will look at that.

Hey, thanks for bringing Linux/SBCL on-line.

kenny
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From kentilton at gmail.com  Wed May 24 20:56:13 2006
From: kentilton at gmail.com (Ken Tilton)
Date: Wed, 24 May 2006 16:56:13 -0400
Subject: [cells-devel] Celtk "Hard to Kill" interim release
Message-ID: <a44bc6a10605241356r2cfcc555n3be6f08538e1593b@mail.gmail.com>

basically this release is just trying to get on the same page with Stu who
is patching like crazy to bring SBCL/Linux on-line. Thx, Stu.

The "Hard to Kill" bit reflects the past 24-hours work fighting tooth and
nail with Tcl/Tk to bring down a Tk window gracefully. Thought I had it
working and then on the last round of tests hit something new (pretty sure
this is just something about also getting timers quiesced, which ironically
is what started me on this mess 48hrs ago).

Meanwhile, I have applied a lot of Stu's patches (Stu, you never got back to
me on the Tugl use-lib -- that is in the interp startup now, does not need
to be at the toplevel unless it turns out SBCL needs it there.) and want to
see how close I got applying them manually as I did while I continue to
fight it out with Tcl/Tk.

I will also bring the Gears demo back under Celtk since 3d is so much fun,
but anyone who wants to test it will have to load it separately: the core
Celtk package will load and run without cl-opengl.

kenny
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From kentilton at gmail.com  Thu May 25 07:39:30 2006
From: kentilton at gmail.com (Ken Tilton)
Date: Thu, 25 May 2006 03:39:30 -0400
Subject: [cells-devel] Celtk better
Message-ID: <44755F32.6070300@gmail.com>

Worked out all known issues shutting down a window, but will not be 
surprised if more arise. Always a delicate balance dealing with a 
foreign GUI.

Did not bother to move Gears/Opengl demo under Celtk source module. 
Maybe tomorrow. Maybe.

kt
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From john at landahl.org  Sat May 27 00:10:19 2006
From: john at landahl.org (John Landahl)
Date: Fri, 26 May 2006 17:10:19 -0700
Subject: [cells-devel] Celtk2 installation
Message-ID: <874pzcnx90.fsf@mobile.landahl.org>

So I'd like to try out the new! improved! Celtk2 under Linux/SBCL, but
I'm having some installation problems.  First I found that I had a
really old version of CFFI (thanks, Ubuntu!).  After installing the
latest CFFI tarball, I still get the following error:

* (require :celtk)

; loading system definition from /usr/local/lib/sbcl/site-systems/cffi.asd into
; #<PACKAGE "ASDF0">
; registering #<SYSTEM CFFI {A9D14D1}> as CFFI
; loading system definition from /usr/local/lib/sbcl/site-systems/cells.asd
; into #<PACKAGE "ASDF0">
; registering #<SYSTEM :CELLS {AD05B69}> as CELLS

debugger invoked on a SIMPLE-ERROR in thread
#<THREAD "initial thread" {B29D0D1}>:
  When attempting to read the slot's value (slot-value), the slot
  CFFI::TO-C-DYNAMIC-EXPANDER is missing from the object
  #<CFFI::FOREIGN-BUILT-IN-TYPE :UNSIGNED-LONG>.

Type HELP for debugger help, or (SB-EXT:QUIT) to exit from SBCL.

restarts (invokable by number or by possibly-abbreviated name):
  0: [RETRY ] Retry performing #<ASDF:LOAD-OP NIL {B48D421}> on
              #<ASDF:CL-SOURCE-FILE "tk-structs" {B46B491}>.
  1: [ACCEPT] Continue, treating #<ASDF:LOAD-OP NIL {B48D421}> on
              #<ASDF:CL-SOURCE-FILE "tk-structs" {B46B491}> as having been
              successful.
  2: [ABORT ] Exit debugger, returning to top level.

((SB-PCL::FAST-METHOD SLOT-MISSING (T T T T))
 #<unavailable argument>
 #<unavailable argument>
 #<unavailable argument>
 #<CFFI::FOREIGN-BUILT-IN-TYPE :UNSIGNED-LONG>
 CFFI::TO-C-DYNAMIC-EXPANDER
 SLOT-VALUE
 NIL)


 Any hints on where to go next?


From kentilton at gmail.com  Sat May 27 00:26:14 2006
From: kentilton at gmail.com (Ken Tilton)
Date: Fri, 26 May 2006 20:26:14 -0400
Subject: [cells-devel] Celtk2 installation
In-Reply-To: <874pzcnx90.fsf@mobile.landahl.org>
References: <874pzcnx90.fsf@mobile.landahl.org>
Message-ID: <a44bc6a10605261726u69217c3dq621c1ef2d38a3c17@mail.gmail.com>

On 5/26/06, John Landahl <john at landahl.org> wrote:
>
> So I'd like to try out the new! improved! Celtk2 under Linux/SBCL, but
> I'm having some installation problems.  First I found that I had a
> really old version of CFFI (thanks, Ubuntu!).  After installing the
> latest CFFI tarball, I still get the following error:
>
> * (require :celtk)
>
> ; loading system definition from /usr/local/lib/sbcl/site-systems/cffi.asd
> into
> ; #<PACKAGE "ASDF0">
> ; registering #<SYSTEM CFFI {A9D14D1}> as CFFI
> ; loading system definition from
> /usr/local/lib/sbcl/site-systems/cells.asd
> ; into #<PACKAGE "ASDF0">
> ; registering #<SYSTEM :CELLS {AD05B69}> as CELLS
>
> debugger invoked on a SIMPLE-ERROR in thread
> #<THREAD "initial thread" {B29D0D1}>:
>   When attempting to read the slot's value (slot-value), the slot
>   CFFI::TO-C-DYNAMIC-EXPANDER is missing from the object
>   #<CFFI::FOREIGN-BUILT-IN-TYPE :UNSIGNED-LONG>.
>
> Type HELP for debugger help, or (SB-EXT:QUIT) to exit from SBCL.
>
> restarts (invokable by number or by possibly-abbreviated name):
>   0: [RETRY ] Retry performing #<ASDF:LOAD-OP NIL {B48D421}> on
>               #<ASDF:CL-SOURCE-FILE "tk-structs" {B46B491}>.
>   1: [ACCEPT] Continue, treating #<ASDF:LOAD-OP NIL {B48D421}> on
>               #<ASDF:CL-SOURCE-FILE "tk-structs" {B46B491}> as having been
>               successful.
>   2: [ABORT ] Exit debugger, returning to top level.
>
> ((SB-PCL::FAST-METHOD SLOT-MISSING (T T T T))
> #<unavailable argument>
> #<unavailable argument>
> #<unavailable argument>
> #<CFFI::FOREIGN-BUILT-IN-TYPE :UNSIGNED-LONG>
> CFFI::TO-C-DYNAMIC-EXPANDER
> SLOT-VALUE
> NIL)
>
>
> Any hints on where to go next?


Hmmm. (require :celtk)? Well, it got all the way up to tk-structs so i guess
SBCL is smart enough to know what to do. To rule out an issue here, hop into
celtk/load.lisp and start evaluating forms one by one. But really...

That error has me concerned as to whether you have managed to get a clean
CFFI environment. CFFI normally complains intelligently if I am off base,
and that looks like an internals trip up. Might be a mismatch of old and new
code.

Meanwhile I will go stare at tk-structs and the CFFI source to see if I
notice anything funny about :unsigned-longs.

kt
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From kentilton at gmail.com  Sat May 27 00:44:14 2006
From: kentilton at gmail.com (Ken Tilton)
Date: Fri, 26 May 2006 20:44:14 -0400
Subject: [cells-devel] Celtk2 installation
In-Reply-To: <874pzcnx90.fsf@mobile.landahl.org>
References: <874pzcnx90.fsf@mobile.landahl.org>
Message-ID: <a44bc6a10605261744j7f6365ect577a9d24d0519a86@mail.gmail.com>

On 5/26/06, John Landahl <john at landahl.org> wrote:
>
> So I'd like to try out the new! improved! Celtk2 under Linux/SBCL, but
> I'm having some installation problems.  First I found that I had a
> really old version of CFFI (thanks, Ubuntu!).  After installing the
> latest CFFI tarball, I still get the following error:
>
> * (require :celtk)
>
> ; loading system definition from /usr/local/lib/sbcl/site-systems/cffi.asd
> into
> ; #<PACKAGE "ASDF0">
> ; registering #<SYSTEM CFFI {A9D14D1}> as CFFI
> ; loading system definition from
> /usr/local/lib/sbcl/site-systems/cells.asd
> ; into #<PACKAGE "ASDF0">
> ; registering #<SYSTEM :CELLS {AD05B69}> as CELLS
>
> debugger invoked on a SIMPLE-ERROR in thread
> #<THREAD "initial thread" {B29D0D1}>:
>   When attempting to read the slot's value (slot-value), the slot
>   CFFI::TO-C-DYNAMIC-EXPANDER is missing from the object
>   #<CFFI::FOREIGN-BUILT-IN-TYPE :UNSIGNED-LONG>.



I am going with the guess  that your CFFI install is still not straight. The
string "to-c-dynamic-expander" does not appear in my CFFI source tree, but
it does appear in an old directory helpfully named cffi-pre-2006-04. This
would be consistent with you having a mix of code now, in which some of it
is old and still looking for that slot, while some of it is new and no
longer has that slot. Of course I do see "to-c" stuff in the new tree
because CFFI has a lot of built-in abilities that way, but I have to think
they refactored recently.

hth, kenny
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From kentilton at gmail.com  Sat May 27 06:25:59 2006
From: kentilton at gmail.com (Ken Tilton)
Date: Sat, 27 May 2006 02:25:59 -0400
Subject: [cells-devel] Cello Rizng
Message-ID: <a44bc6a10605262325t544e27d8nf66c10ea6e1a84fe@mail.gmail.com>

GUI fans might want to start tracking the Cello list for ongoing
development.

Celtk is fine and with its Togl widget even does OpenGL, but Cello makes the
Celtk/Togl come alive with:

    FTGL -- anti-aliased texture, polygon, outline, pixmap, bitmap,
extruded, and one I ma forgetting fonts
    GraphicsMagick/ImageMagick -- awesome graphic file handling and more
    OpenAL -- fun with 3D sound
    Much more sophisticate dframework, esp. in re widget Geometry.

Speaking of OpenAL, it looks as if the Tcl "Snack" library will provide
terrific real-time audio synthesis (but that would be true for Celtk as
well).

Anyway, if you download Cello now (a) most of it is yet to be resurrected
but (b) if you can get demo NeHe-06 running (1) you are pretty good at
getting hairy libraries running and (2) i think you will enjoy it. :)

Meanwhile, PyCells is bringing some attention this way:

   http://www.eby-sarna.com/pipermail/peak/2006-May/002545.html

kt
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From kentilton at gmail.com  Sat May 27 15:28:33 2006
From: kentilton at gmail.com (Ken Tilton)
Date: Sat, 27 May 2006 11:28:33 -0400
Subject: [cells-devel] Re: [PyCells] Possibly-useful prior art
In-Reply-To: <5.1.1.6.0.20060526225520.02f1eb20@mail.telecommunity.com>
References: <5.1.1.6.0.20060526225520.02f1eb20@mail.telecommunity.com>
Message-ID: <a44bc6a10605270828va4cc19ekcab229f5cd0baa27@mail.gmail.com>

Phillip,

Nice write-up. Random notes:

What I discovered is quite cool.  The Cells system *automatically
discovers* dynamic dependencies, without having to explicitly specify that
X depends on Y, as long as X and Y are both implemented using cell
objects.

<g> And that is part of why Cells is pretty much all-or-nothing for a
developer: I have not tried to figure out the threshhold, but above what I
think is a very low one, all application semantics must be expressed
declaratively as Cell rules. Otherwise imperative code gets left out of the
action as the automatic dataflow engine does its thing. The corollary being
your "as long as" qualifier: my declarative rules are crippled if some
important datapoint is not a Cell.

For the first seven years of Cells development, when in doubt I started out
a new slot/attribute as a non-Cell, bending over backwards if you will not
to force the mechanism where it should not go. The default :cell
meta-attribute was nil until just recently. But in each case, soon enough it
turned out I would need them to be Cells. Just recently "true" became the
default for :cell.


Specifically, the cells system understands how to make event-based updates
orderly and deterministic, in a way that peak.events cannot.

It may be of interest that this orderliness is relatively new to Cells. For
the longest time and in the most intense applications I got away with
murder. Strangely, it was development of a RoboCup client that forced Cells
to "grow up".

One especially interesting bit is that
the Cells system can "optimize away" dependencies or subscriptions when
their subjects are known to be constant values.

I was quite surprised at how much faster this made Cells run.

I'm also wondering if a Cells-like system couldn't also be used to
implement STM (Software Transactional Memory) to allow for atomic
operations even in the presence of threads.  All reads and writes are
controlled by the cells system, so it can in principle abort and retry a
"transaction", by waiting until *something changes* that would affect the
transaction's ability to succeed.

We have a Google SoC project over on the Lisp side to implement STM, and
yes, I am excited about that making Cells viable in a multi-threaded
situation. Mind you, I had never heard of STM before this proposal landed on
our doorstep, nor do even have much idea of what is available to
applications when it comes to dealing with threads, but looking at how Cells
manages data integrity I know it will need help to survive threads. STM
looks like a great fix.

However, seeing how the Cells paradigm works, it seems to me that it should
be pretty easy to establish the convention that side-effects should be
confined to non-rule "observer" code.

Right, it is just a convention, but I think one that gets easier to follow
because the engine provides a simple way to say "do this when the time is
right".


experience w/e.g. peak.binding attributes shows that it's rare to want to
put side-effects into pull-oriented rules.

"We could do it, but it would be wrong."


Really, the principal downside to Cells is wrapping your head around the
idea that *everything* should be treated as pull-oriented rules.

Yes, it really is a paradigm shift, one it takes a long time to internalize.
What I noticed was that, if I decided to add a significant new mechanism to
the system, after about two hours of coding I would be having increasing
difficulties and start to get a vague "bad feeling". Then I would realize
that I had, from long habit, fallen back into an imperative style. Hence the
"bad feeling". Because the code was all new, it did not grow naturally from
the Cell-based model. if it had, It would of course been done originally in
the declarative style.

I have encouraged Ryan, the PyCells author, not to allow backdoors to the
Cells engine, precisely because of this. The big win comes from the
declarative paradigm, and developers will not climb that learning curve if
they can avoid it. SImple human nature. Cells makes one think harder up
front in return for all sorts of good things later, and that is a tradeoff I
have always liked to make as a developer.

 There are
some operations (such as receiving a command and responding to it) that
seem to be more naturally expressed as pushing operations, where you make
some decisions and then directly update things or send other commands out.

Exactly! A spreadsheet is a steady-state thing (here are the values, here is
the computed other state) and using Cells to express static reality is a
snap. Otoh, imperative code is all about change, so it is great for handling
events.

We use ephemeral Cells to model events (they take on a value, propagate,
then revert to null silently, without propagating), but one still can end up
thinking pretty hard when it comes to events. I think the most frightening
"rule" I have written was for a Timer class implemented by the Tcl "after"
command.


Actually, you can still do that, it's just that those updates or commands
force another "virtual moment" of time into being, where if you had made
them pull-driven they could've happened in the *same* "virtual
moment".  So, it's more that pull-based rules are slightly more efficient
than push-based ones, which is nice because that means most developers will
consider it worth learning how to do it the pull way.  ;)

That and the straitjacket I hope PyCells keeps from Cells.

Anyway, there is a *lot* of interesting food for thought, here.  For
example, you could create object validation rules using cells, and the
results would be automatically recomputed when something they depended on
changed.  Not only that, but it would be possible to do atomic updates,
such that the validation wouldn't occur until *after* all the changes were
made -- i.e., no false positives.  Of course, you'd get the resulting
validation errors in the *next* "time quantum", so you'd need to make the
response to them event-driven as well.

It's definitely a slippery slope. :)

For example, this deterministic model of computation seems to
resemble "object prevalence" (e.g. Prevayler) in that everything (even the
clock) is deterministic, changes are atomic, and I/O occurs between logical
moments of time.  I haven't thought this particular link through very much
yet, it's just an intriguing similarity.

Nice call. I have heard the Cells data integrity model maps nicely onto the
transaction model of AllegroCache, a persistent Lisp object database.

The head-exploding part is figuring out how to get errors to propagate
backwards in time, so that validation rules (which run in the "next
moment") could appear to cause an error at the point where the values were
set.

Sounds like you want at least one Undo. What about a "fail now or forever
hold your peace" policy?

cheers, kenny
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From kentilton at gmail.com  Mon May 29 18:23:29 2006
From: kentilton at gmail.com (Ken Tilton)
Date: Mon, 29 May 2006 14:23:29 -0400
Subject: [cells-devel] Filters, anyone?
Message-ID: <a44bc6a10605291123v3b2dc25cybb8b8bb0349ddc3e@mail.gmail.com>

Wow, just tripped over my own code in support of filters, aka synapses. I
think I have to make a change.

I manage to eliminate Synapses as distinct objects by /always/ interpreting
the second of possibly multiple returned values as a "propagate?" indicator.
I thought this would be OK since a slot can hold only one value. But!

   (c? (floor (^length) 2))

...ends up feeding the "propagate?" interpretation, so it turned we all have
been getting unnecessary propagation where we innocently returned multiple
values and the second was non-nil.

My proposed solution is to make the kludge even worse. :) A cell acting in
the role of a synapse/filter will have to return 'cells::propagate-yes,
'cell::propagate-no, or (I think there was a third value). Only those will
be meaningful. Anything else gets thrown away.

Thoughts? Alternatives?

kt
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From kentilton at gmail.com  Tue May 30 01:03:13 2006
From: kentilton at gmail.com (Ken Tilton)
Date: Mon, 29 May 2006 21:03:13 -0400
Subject: [cells-devel] to propagate or not to propagate...
Message-ID: <a44bc6a10605291803rbc5587er8431fd1ba7f6f4a7@mail.gmail.com>

Turns out the one filter I looked at was already answering either :propagate
or :no-propagate, so on the fly I pronounced that a new standard, tweaked
the code to respect either in re propagation and otherwise do the usual
test  of before/after value change.

So is this an API change or bug fix? :)

ken
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From kentilton at gmail.com  Tue May 30 03:00:36 2006
From: kentilton at gmail.com (Ken Tilton)
Date: Mon, 29 May 2006 23:00:36 -0400
Subject: [cells-devel] New "tutorial/RT code in Cells source tree
Message-ID: <a44bc6a10605292000ha67e453k3655b2d8df6cdb9c@mail.gmail.com>

I have just uploaded a first rough set of example code which is intended to
exercise Cells with a progression of challenges, in the order I might follow
when developing a port of Cells to another language, or when validating
cells after an enormous upheaval.

I call it the tutorial directory, but it could also be a porting guide and a
more concise regression test than the random mish-mosh in cells-test. I do
plan to put future energy into this code as a regrression test suite, so...
watch for a name change? :)

kt
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From fgoenninger at prion.de  Wed May 31 05:27:26 2006
From: fgoenninger at prion.de (Frank Goenninger)
Date: Wed, 31 May 2006 07:27:26 +0200
Subject: [cells-devel] Celtk: Text widget API woes
Message-ID: <DC69FA3A-5D37-4987-AE77-41AECB352E69@prion.de>

Hi all:

Just a heads up on the behaviour of the text widget:

Currently setting the contents of the text widget is done by setting  
the model value of the widget's model. This causes two steps to be  
triggered as Tcl commands:
1. Erase text widget to empty display
2. Set new text and display this text

Now, if one is reading file contents to be display to the widget by  
using consequtive calls to read-line and setting each line as the new  
text widget content only the last line will be displayed, of course.  
And if this happens to be an empty line then just nothing will appear  
on the text widget.

In case you want to dig in deeper on that subject, well, we're here...

Frank



From kentilton at gmail.com  Wed May 31 05:44:06 2006
From: kentilton at gmail.com (Ken Tilton)
Date: Wed, 31 May 2006 01:44:06 -0400
Subject: [cells-devel] Celtk: Text widget API woes
In-Reply-To: <DC69FA3A-5D37-4987-AE77-41AECB352E69@prion.de>
References: <DC69FA3A-5D37-4987-AE77-41AECB352E69@prion.de>
Message-ID: <a44bc6a10605302244q5b88dc71kb81710ff692c51fd@mail.gmail.com>

On 5/31/06, Frank Goenninger <fgoenninger at prion.de> wrote:
>
> Hi all:
>
> Just a heads up on the behaviour of the text widget:
>
> Currently setting the contents of the text widget is done by setting
> the model value of the widget's model. This causes two steps to be
> triggered as Tcl commands:
> 1. Erase text widget to empty display
> 2. Set new text and display this text
>
> Now, if one is reading file contents to be display to the widget by
> using consequtive calls to read-line and setting each line as the new
> text widget content only the last line will be displayed, of course.
> And if this happens to be an empty line then just nothing will appear
> on the text widget.
>
> In case you want to dig in deeper on that subject, well, we're here...


Are you ready to solo? I do not think there is an off-the-shelf answer for
anything more sophisticated than what you see now in text-widget.

(1) subclass text-widget
(2) define for that subclass an :around observer of .md-value that does
nothing or "what you want"
(3) add slots to your text-wdget subclass as needed and knock yourself out.

What you can consider is an ephemeral "append-data" slot you will setf with
each line of input. The observer on that line does the insert-at-end thing.
md-value can have a rule that appends "append-data" to .cache. the md-value
is just there should other code want to get to it, though there is always
the text widget dump and cget (?) stuff.

I'd hang out my shingle and suggest a contract, but this seems like a
reasonable next step for you in re Cells fluency.

ken
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From fgoenninger at prion.de  Wed May 31 13:09:28 2006
From: fgoenninger at prion.de (Frank Goenninger)
Date: Wed, 31 May 2006 15:09:28 +0200
Subject: [cells-devel] Celtk: Text widget API woes
In-Reply-To: <a44bc6a10605302244q5b88dc71kb81710ff692c51fd@mail.gmail.com>
References: <DC69FA3A-5D37-4987-AE77-41AECB352E69@prion.de>
	<a44bc6a10605302244q5b88dc71kb81710ff692c51fd@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <EEE8FD28-9597-4113-80AB-0C169E912107@prion.de>


Am 31.05.2006 um 07:44 schrieb Ken Tilton:

>
>
> On 5/31/06, Frank Goenninger <fgoenninger at prion.de> wrote: Hi all:
>
> ...
[snipped my earlier message]

> In case you want to dig in deeper on that subject, well, we're here...
>
> Are you ready to solo?

??? What do you mean by that ?

> I do not think there is an off-the-shelf answer for anything more  
> sophisticated than what you see now in text-widget.

Yes, of course there is no better way to do this. I did not say  
otherwise. I just documented what is in there right now. I'll not do  
that again  - I seem to understand you want me to stop contributing.  
I just do not get why right now.

> (1) subclass text-widget
> (2) define for that subclass an :around observer of .md-value that  
> does nothing or "what you want"
> (3) add slots to your text-wdget subclass as needed and knock  
> yourself out.

That's obviously the way to go. I also never said otherwise.

> What you can consider is an ephemeral "append-data" slot you will  
> setf with each line of input. The observer on that line does the  
> insert-at-end thing. md-value can have a rule that appends "append- 
> data" to .cache. the md-value is just there should other code want  
> to get to it, though there is always the text widget dump and cget  
> (?) stuff.

Sure. I know. I assumed you know that I know.

>
> I'd hang out my shingle and suggest a contract, but this seems like  
> a reasonable next step for you in re Cells fluency.

Sorry, You lost me here completely. What does that mean? Text widget  
and Tk is not about Cells. I do know perfectly well that I am a  
bloody beginner in re Cells. As for the text widget I'd say I did  
gain some experience (that I am ready to share).

Please enlighten me on how I did something I shouldn't have done. The  
only intention was to say "well, there is something you can use and  
if you do, don't be surprised it behaves like this." Because that's  
the thing I was trapped by. Assuming others might experience this  
also I "bursted out" into a few lines of a short notice - speaking  
from beginner to beginner.

Well, I may be wrong here as I might well misunderstand all of the  
underlying message of this reply, or, even, there is none - if so, I  
beg pardon for implying something which isn't there.

> ken

Frank - having a big question mark in my mind



From kentilton at gmail.com  Wed May 31 13:25:06 2006
From: kentilton at gmail.com (Ken Tilton)
Date: Wed, 31 May 2006 09:25:06 -0400
Subject: [cells-devel] Celtk: Text widget API woes
In-Reply-To: <EEE8FD28-9597-4113-80AB-0C169E912107@prion.de>
References: <DC69FA3A-5D37-4987-AE77-41AECB352E69@prion.de>
	<a44bc6a10605302244q5b88dc71kb81710ff692c51fd@mail.gmail.com>
	<EEE8FD28-9597-4113-80AB-0C169E912107@prion.de>
Message-ID: <a44bc6a10605310625t624cb47bje67eae41adf01fa2@mail.gmail.com>

On 5/31/06, Frank Goenninger <fgoenninger at prion.de> wrote:
>
>
> Am 31.05.2006 um 07:44 schrieb Ken Tilton:
>
> >
> >
> > On 5/31/06, Frank Goenninger <fgoenninger at prion.de> wrote: Hi all:



That is the part I missed. :) I thought you were writing to /me/ asking for
help on the text widget.

kt
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From fgoenninger at prion.de  Wed May 31 13:54:33 2006
From: fgoenninger at prion.de (Frank Goenninger)
Date: Wed, 31 May 2006 15:54:33 +0200
Subject: [cells-devel] Celtk: Text widget API woes
In-Reply-To: <a44bc6a10605310625t624cb47bje67eae41adf01fa2@mail.gmail.com>
References: <DC69FA3A-5D37-4987-AE77-41AECB352E69@prion.de>
	<a44bc6a10605302244q5b88dc71kb81710ff692c51fd@mail.gmail.com>
	<EEE8FD28-9597-4113-80AB-0C169E912107@prion.de>
	<a44bc6a10605310625t624cb47bje67eae41adf01fa2@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <87808FC1-28E2-4714-A314-EC371D8E1792@prion.de>

Am 31.05.2006 um 15:25 schrieb Ken Tilton:

>
>
> On 5/31/06, Frank Goenninger <fgoenninger at prion.de> wrote:
> Am 31.05.2006 um 07:44 schrieb Ken Tilton:
>
> >
> >
> > On 5/31/06, Frank Goenninger <fgoenninger at prion.de> wrote: Hi all:
>
>
> That is the part I missed. :) I thought you were writing to /me/  
> asking for help on the text widget.
>
> kt

Oh, I really, really, really want to say a big "I am sorry" for  
having written a lengthy message about just nothing!!!

Back to hacking ;-)

Frank



From kentilton at gmail.com  Wed May 31 16:07:54 2006
From: kentilton at gmail.com (Ken Tilton)
Date: Wed, 31 May 2006 12:07:54 -0400
Subject: [cells-devel] Celtk: Text widget API woes
In-Reply-To: <87808FC1-28E2-4714-A314-EC371D8E1792@prion.de>
References: <DC69FA3A-5D37-4987-AE77-41AECB352E69@prion.de>
	<a44bc6a10605302244q5b88dc71kb81710ff692c51fd@mail.gmail.com>
	<EEE8FD28-9597-4113-80AB-0C169E912107@prion.de>
	<a44bc6a10605310625t624cb47bje67eae41adf01fa2@mail.gmail.com>
	<87808FC1-28E2-4714-A314-EC371D8E1792@prion.de>
Message-ID: <a44bc6a10605310907g3abcfe24v8bccf231e680174f@mail.gmail.com>

> > That is the part I missed. :) I thought you were writing to /me/
> > asking for help on the text widget.
> >
> > kt
>
> Oh, I really, really, really want to say a big "I am sorry" for
> having written a lengthy message about just nothing!!!


Not at all, /my/ mistake in flipping exactly one bit made valid your
entirely different interpretation. I would apologize but it has been worth
the laugh. :) I needed a break from porting Cello to Celtk.

But last night was a good one and it is starting to be fun now. If I
actually do this and get that Amazing Spinning Shapes Demo working* under an
entirely different framework I will be smiling from ear to ear -- and we can
start spamming the Cello list instead of Cells.

kenzo

* Unfortunately without the neat Glut built-ins such as sphere, torus, and
<sob> teapot. k
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