From yurinohana at ocn.ne.jp Fri Oct 6 21:56:10 2006 From: yurinohana at ocn.ne.jp (=?shift-jis?B?iOmW7IFAjbmW6w==?=) Date: Fri, 6 Oct 2006 17:56:10 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [anaphora-devel] 鬼会い Message-ID: <20061006215610.4F2AF7C016@common-lisp.net> ???H????????????????????? ???????????????????? http://sruq.com/?c109 ????????????????????????????? ?????????????????????? ????H????????????????????????? ???????????????????? ????????20????? http://sruq.com/?c109 ???????????? ????????????????????? ????????????????????????????????? ?????????????????????? http://sruq.com/?c109 ????????????????????????????? PC??????OK? PC?????????????OK??????????????? ??????????????????????????????? ?????????????????????? ???????? ?????????????????????????????? ???????????????????????????? ????????????????????????????? ???????????????????????????????? ?????????????? http://sruq.com/?c109 ?????????? ???????????????????????????????????? ????????????????? ?????????????????????? ???? star_dast1000 at yahoo.fr From attila.lendvai at gmail.com Fri Oct 13 16:36:51 2006 From: attila.lendvai at gmail.com (Attila Lendvai) Date: Fri, 13 Oct 2006 18:36:51 +0200 Subject: [anaphora-devel] when-bind if-bind (and friends?) Message-ID: hi! any objections against adding when-bind and if-bind to anaphora? if approved i'll send a patch, but i don't want to waste my time against something already decided... i'm planning to drop the anaphoric stuff from arnesi and depend on anaphora. -- - attila "- The truth is that I've been too considerate, and so became unintentionally cruel... - I understand. - No, you don't understand! We don't speak the same language!" (Ingmar Bergman - Smultronst?llet) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From nikodemus at random-state.net Sat Oct 14 10:49:48 2006 From: nikodemus at random-state.net (Nikodemus Siivola) Date: Sat, 14 Oct 2006 13:49:48 +0300 Subject: [anaphora-devel] when-bind if-bind (and friends?) In-Reply-To: (Attila Lendvai's message of "Fri, 13 Oct 2006 18:36:51 +0200") References: Message-ID: <87zmbzw4s3.fsf@logxor.random-state.net> "Attila Lendvai" writes: > any objections against adding when-bind and if-bind to anaphora? if approved i'll send a patch, but i don't want to waste my time against something already > decided... > > i'm planning to drop the anaphoric stuff from arnesi and depend on anaphora. Not sure. They aren't really anaphoric, are they. OTOH, I don't really see the harm beyond "intellectual purity". Lemme think a bit. Cheers, -- Nikodemus Schemer: "Buddha is small, clean, and serious." Lispnik: "Buddha is big, has hairy armpits, and laughs." From attila.lendvai at gmail.com Sat Oct 14 11:07:49 2006 From: attila.lendvai at gmail.com (Attila Lendvai) Date: Sat, 14 Oct 2006 13:07:49 +0200 Subject: [anaphora-devel] when-bind if-bind (and friends?) In-Reply-To: <87zmbzw4s3.fsf@logxor.random-state.net> References: <87zmbzw4s3.fsf@logxor.random-state.net> Message-ID: > > > any objections against adding when-bind and if-bind to anaphora? if > approved i'll send a patch, but i don't want to waste my time against > something already > > decided... > > > > i'm planning to drop the anaphoric stuff from arnesi and depend on > anaphora. > > Not sure. They aren't really anaphoric, are they. OTOH, I don't really see > the > harm beyond "intellectual purity". that's a good point, but we can have several pro reasons like: - too many small libs waste effort put into maintenance - too few libs are not easily combined - or the mere usefullness of these macros. the ones i miss at a first glance: - when-bind, if-bind - if2-bind, when2-bind (for gethash and friends) -- - attila "- The truth is that I've been too considerate, and so became unintentionally cruel... - I understand. - No, you don't understand! We don't speak the same language!" (Ingmar Bergman - Smultronst?llet) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From gwking at metabang.com Sat Oct 14 19:10:23 2006 From: gwking at metabang.com (Gary King) Date: Sat, 14 Oct 2006 15:10:23 -0400 Subject: [anaphora-devel] when-bind if-bind (and friends?) In-Reply-To: References: <87zmbzw4s3.fsf@logxor.random-state.net> Message-ID: Sorry to be so confused, but what is the function signature for if-bind? On Oct 14, 2006, at 7:07 AM, Attila Lendvai wrote: > > any objections against adding when-bind and if-bind to anaphora? > if approved i'll send a patch, but i don't want to waste my time > against something already > > decided... > > > > i'm planning to drop the anaphoric stuff from arnesi and depend > on anaphora. > > Not sure. They aren't really anaphoric, are they. OTOH, I don't > really see the > harm beyond "intellectual purity". > > that's a good point, but we can have several pro reasons like: > - too many small libs waste effort put into maintenance > - too few libs are not easily combined > - or the mere usefullness of these macros. > > the ones i miss at a first glance: > - when-bind, if-bind > - if2-bind, when2-bind (for gethash and friends) > > -- > - attila > > "- The truth is that I've been too considerate, and so became > unintentionally cruel... > - I understand. > - No, you don't understand! We don't speak the same language!" > (Ingmar Bergman - Smultronst?llet) > _______________________________________________ > anaphora-devel site list > anaphora-devel at common-lisp.net > http://common-lisp.net/mailman/listinfo/anaphora-devel -- Gary Warren King, metabang.com Cell: (413) 885 9127 Fax: (206) 338-4052 gwkkwg on Skype * garethsan on AIM -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From attila.lendvai at gmail.com Sun Oct 15 10:25:50 2006 From: attila.lendvai at gmail.com (Attila Lendvai) Date: Sun, 15 Oct 2006 12:25:50 +0200 Subject: [anaphora-devel] when-bind if-bind (and friends?) In-Reply-To: References: <87zmbzw4s3.fsf@logxor.random-state.net> Message-ID: > > Sorry to be so confused, but what is the function signature for if-bind? > you can have two kind of if-bind, the one in arnesi and the one that covers most of the use-cases is a single var version: (if-bind var expression then else) but one can have an: (if-let ((var1 expr1) (var2 expr2)) then else) which should expand to nested let's with an if's to keep the semantics of 'and. but imho this if-let idiom is not needed that often to justify the extra syntax for the single var case and the extra semantic complexity (non-obviousness). -- - attila "- The truth is that I've been too considerate, and so became unintentionally cruel... - I understand. - No, you don't understand! We don't speak the same language!" (Ingmar Bergman - Smultronst?llet) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From nikodemus at random-state.net Sun Oct 15 10:48:17 2006 From: nikodemus at random-state.net (Nikodemus Siivola) Date: Sun, 15 Oct 2006 13:48:17 +0300 Subject: [anaphora-devel] when-bind if-bind (and friends?) In-Reply-To: (Attila Lendvai's message of "Sun, 15 Oct 2006 12:25:50 +0200") References: <87zmbzw4s3.fsf@logxor.random-state.net> Message-ID: <87veml4zym.fsf@logxor.random-state.net> "Attila Lendvai" writes: > you can have two kind of if-bind, the one in arnesi and the one that covers most of the use-cases is a single var version: > > (if-bind var expression > then > else) > > but one can have an: > > (if-let ((var1 expr1) > (var2 expr2)) > then > else) > > which should expand to nested let's with an if's to keep the semantics of 'and. > > but imho this if-let idiom is not needed that often to justify the extra syntax for the single var case and the extra semantic complexity (non-obviousness). I see your point, but I'd also note that (if-let (var expr) then else) does not have any risk of confusion while remaining quite short: the (let (x y z) ..) shorthand does not make sense for if/when-let, and still allows binding multiple variables. >From my POV binding macros without the surrounding parens are magical looking, and something to be regarded with suspicion. Extra sematic complexity to me means special-cases in comparison to rest of the language, while clarity and ease of remembering are facilited by following common patterns: to me it is easier to see (and guess) what (if-let (x (gethash y z)) (frob x)) means, then (if-bind x (gethash y z) (frob x)) The parens provide a grouping that is visually similar to normal binding forms, and LET is a dead giveaway. (And I maintain that for ease of reading (if-let ((x (gethash y z))) ...) is even better: then you _know_ that X cannot be a function call.) Whereas in the -bind form there are two "floating forms", and i must wonder if the form is mis-indented, and the real expansion is maybe something like (if x (let ((y (magic))) (gethash z y)) (frob x)) or (let ((x (magic))) (if x (gethash z y) (frob x))) ! Finally, the form with extra parens is even more convenient for editing, provided one uses paredit or something similar! (...but IF-BIND will not kill me should everyone else really prefer it) Cheers, -- Nikodemus Schemer: "Buddha is small, clean, and serious." Lispnik: "Buddha is big, has hairy armpits, and laughs." From aniutek1 at neostrada.pl Sat Oct 21 13:26:13 2006 From: aniutek1 at neostrada.pl (William) Date: Sat, 21 Oct 2006 14:26:13 +0100 Subject: [anaphora-devel] Looking for cheap high-quality software? 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